Nine To Five: Is It Really That Bad?
The nine to five grind has been good to us.
I almost feel like I’m betraying my online friends by saying that. So many talented writers are resisting the idea of a “real” job. So many of us have been miserable doing the nine to five grind. For many, a “real” job means a death sentence to our creativity, to our dreams.
People who choose to carve their own path in life
Just a few of the fabulous, fierce, non-compromising people I have had the pleasure of meeting online in recent months:
Evyan of Apricot Tea is uncomfortable with people’s reactions when she tells them she’s not working, but she knows in her heart that staying home is right for her and that a “real job” would make her miserable.
Layoffs at Hunter Nuttall’s workplace have finally enabled him to become a professional blogger.
Jonathan Mead bravely insists on living without a template, even when it means “embarrassment, humiliation and flat out rejection.”
Tim Brownson of The Discomfort Zone refused to remain a well-paid but miserable sales person. He is having the time of his life working as a self-employed life coach.
Writer Dad is planning an exciting future of breaking away from work that no longer fulfills him and doing what he loves: writing for a living.
Evelyn Lim had the courage to leave her job as a banker and start the business of her dreams.
But for some, a real job can be a good thing
While I completely respect my friends’ choice to become self-employed, and accept that for many creative types nine to five jobs ARE in fact a death sentence, I wanted to talk a bit about the other side. To remind everyone that some people are truly happy with “real” jobs and “real” careers.
It has been my experience, and especially my husband’s since I did make a career change and then took a long break from my career when my kids were born, that a real job can be very rewarding. The “get a degree, get a job and be damn good at what you do” path can and does work.
If you choose the right career for you, then keep at it long enough and are successful enough, you have freedoms that are usually associated with being your own boss. You can get to a point where you can take long vacations, decide how long to work each day, when to start your day, and whether to work from your home or from the office.
When you not only follow the path of a degree and a career but also remember to save and invest a significant chunk of your earnings each year, and especially if you start to invest in your early twenties, the magic of compound interest means that in your late thirties and during your forties you also have the financial freedom to take risks and chances and make career changes, because you can get by without a salary for many months.
So in a way, if you “give” those 15 years to the system, you get to take back – and you’re even young enough to enjoy it.
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe we were just lucky to be in the Silicon Valley during the exciting dot com boom. Maybe most careers ARE miserable. After all, our jobs were never the real, mundane, boring “nine to five” ones. A Silicon Valley start-up is hardly a boring place. So that could explain why we’re not as frustrated as others are. Or maybe we’re just a couple of boring, mundane, conformists. That’s a possibility too, especially since we are both firstborns and I seem to recall reading somewhere that firstborns tend to conform rather than rebel.
Being your own boss can make you work too hard
people always talk about the “nine to five grind”, but working for yourself can create an even worse grind. Monika Mundell, who writes about freelance writing, was unable to work for several weeks after contracting an illness that she attributes to working too hard and stressing her body too much.
She says, “I have been going at my business flat out for nearly 18 months now of which I have been fully booked for the last 10 months. I am a sucker for not saying no enough and therefore ended up taking all the work offered to me. But as it happens, I can’t go on like this and need to find a balance between my writing work, my niche sites and me. Not to mention my husband and my darling birds. The days are just not long enough to get it all done. You probably know that anyway.”
A major risk when you’re self-employed is not knowing when to stop and rest. This is a serious health risk, and the argument “it’s OK to work nonstop as long as you love what you do” is simply not true. Working in front of the computer 14 hours each day, rarely going outside, never exercising and eating junk WILL HARM YOUR HEALTH sooner or later, even if you love every minute of it.
While a nine to five job isn’t for everyone, it’s not necessarily evil. It depends a lot on the job, on the employer and on how your career advances over the years, but it IS possible to be an employee, have a fabulous career, make good money and be very happy. I suspect many of you will disagree. I’m looking forward to your comments.
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Related Reading:
Being A Lawyer
Why The Hell Would You Get A Job?
Image credit: jcoldironjr2003
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J.D. Meier responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 1:40 am →
Out of the frying pan and into the fire, right?
I think it comes down to living your life by design and knowing what trade-offs you can make, and still meet your objectives. There’s so many paths and options so its really about meeting your needs and having fun with your wants.
I think it’s also about self-awareness. Some people find out the hard way that they’re a terrible boss to work for and a slave driver when they first work for themselves. I like how the EMyth spelled out the roles of the Entrepreneur, the Manager, and the Tecnician. I’ve seen too many technicians fail as entrepreneurs or managers simply because they didn’t know how to switch hats or pair up.
On a related note, I think today’s information age helps us shift from industrial jobs as a cog in the wheel to more knowledge work. That means a shift from a time focus to a value focus. That’s why opportunities like a 4 hr work week are possible.
Cath Lawson responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 1:53 am →
Hi Vered – Thank you for the link. You were probably expecting me to disagree with you, but I won’t. I believe a lot of people are more suited to having a job than working for themselves. And some jobs do offer a lot of freedom and excellent benefits.
The health issue is important. My health has suffered a lot in the past through putting in ridiculously long hours and worrying about things like cashflow. I must admit, when you have folk working for you, it makes life a lot easier when you’re ill with flu or something. But unless you have an MD in place, long term illness could ruin your business no matter how many people you had working for you.
I have a friend who had a great business – he was making a fortune. Then he got really ill and couldn’t work for six months. And even though he had a business partner and he also had people working for him – his business went bust. He never returned to self employment, as he was afraid the same thing would happen again. But he now has a pretty good career.
Mike Goad responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 3:07 am →
A “job” can also be security — security that you can support your family, security that health needs can be taken care of, security from worry.
If you stick with it long enough and work for a company where it still is offered, there is also the possibility of a pension, sometimes at a relatively young age.
While I fantasized about “being my own boss,” it’s not something that I would have been suited for, just as I figured out a long time ago that I wasn’t suited to be a supervisor or manager. I was fortunate enough to have been put in as project lead and team supervisor enough times to know that dealing with people as “personnel” and subordinates went against my nature — and at the few times I put in for a supervisory position, someone else got the job, thank-you-very-much!
I was fortunate enough to get into a field that, for most of my “career,” didn’t usually seem like work. From just after Christmas 1971 through the end of February 2007, I had just two employers, the US Navy (9 years) and the company I retired from. I worked in one job, and in one building, for the most part, for almost 24 years. A couple of guys that started out in that same job with me, in that same building, and about the same time are now corporate executives, but they had the personality types for it. I didn’t.
I realize that many people wouldn’t view staying in one job for nearly 24 years as successful. I did. It was challenging and rewarding, and — until the last very few years — FUN, for the most part. It also paid well.
But then the company became the corporation and started to standardize things and hired corporate execs who were fixers, even though nothing was broke. It still wasn’t hard work, but it started being more of a grind with all of the added things that were required that didn’t add value, in my view.
In 2005 or so, I was put in a very difficult position where I was the only one of two people who could legally accomplish, under federal regulations, something that was pretty important, that normally requires several people, that I had primary responsibility for and had sought out. Then, the other guy was taken away. I was so overwhelmed with work that I told a manager that if I was 35, I would have quit, and if I was 55, I would have retired. I got pretty emotional about it and I’m not a person to show my emotions in a work setting. My immediate management tried to get some relief for me by hiring a contractor, but couldn’t get the funding.
Fortunately. the situation only lasted a few weeks, but when I turned 55, I retired rather than waiting longer like I had planned.
Then, after I had been gone for a year, management, for the first time in 20 years got funding for a contractor to help do the very job I had needed help with, and I went back for 6 months.
I had a blast! — and was well paid for it, too! Right now, it’s the only contracting job that I would consider doing, because I don’t need the “work.”
Avital responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 3:29 am →
Vered, you know how I feel. You have written a post all about it – describing it so well – Being A Lawyer Was Sucking The Life Out Of Me, I couldn’t have put it better myself… But as 9 years have not yet passed for me and I haven’t expanded my family yet and I am in the very beginning of my career change path, I can say that i am very ambivalent right now. I’m feeling torn. I keep forgetting the nasty colleagues and the boring-gray-day to day tasks I had to complete. I only remember the times I had fun in court or the times I led negotiations for a multi-billion deals and the times the CEOs and the CFOs had given me their personal numbers so I can consult them on the go (as they were happy with the way I led the negotiations and with the business advice I gave them). I remember the money flowing into my bank account every month – no slow months and good months… I only remember the good stuff and miss the good stuff tremendously.
When you are following a dream the first steps are veiled in fairy dust, yes they are, but as you go along in realizing your dream, there are moments of fear and disbelief and in those moments your want your 8-20 (on good days) job back… and then the fairy dusts hits again. It’s a process.
Davina responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 3:29 am →
Hi Vered. I don’t disagree with you at all. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If I hadn’t been laid off I would probably still be at that same job. There are definitely pros and cons in both the 9-5 grind and being self-employed. What is important is that you are happy where you are. It doesn’t matter if it has a label of 9-5 or self-employed.
Lance responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 4:10 am →
This is crux of what I struggle with currently Vered. I am in a 9-5 job that I enjoy very much, for a company that I mostly like quite well. The company is completely owned by the employees, so I have a vested interest not only in my salary, but also in the well-being of the company as a whole. We’re in a nice, new building. I’ve been here 11 years. My commute is short. I have a lot of autonomy to do what I need to. This all sounds pretty good, doesn’t it.
And yet, all that said – I don’t “love” my job. So I’m at this crossroads. And that, as described above, makes it hard to leave the 9-5 world (well, it extends beyond 9-5). There is this real fear that going it alone – being my own boss – what if it doesn’t work? Have I given up something pretty great, only to find something I like less.
The key, I think – is in enjoying what you do – in really finding passion from it. If that’s a 9-5 job – so be it. And if it’s being out on your own, working crazy hours – then so be that. Everyone is unique…
This is going to be an interesting discussion Vered – I’m looking forward to how it all plays out…
Betsy Wuebker responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 5:24 am →
Hi Vered – I’ve had a varied career path, starting out in corporate environments, moving to and from smaller companies and back again, staying home with my young children, and then working independently for almost fifteen years in several pursuits. When I was first starting out, it never occurred to me that I could work for myself, and even if it had, I doubt I would’ve figured out exactly how to do that. Armed with your degree, you prayed for an offer from the university job fair, and felt lucky when you got one. And one was all I got in the Carter recession. Subsequently, job changes were the result of relocations. I made do, sometimes very well, in the new locale because my husband’s job came first.
So, I think a career path is a function of opportunity and circumstances combined with outlook, or lack thereof in any combination. Some are forced to go into business for themselves as a result of a layoff or downturn. Others in the same boat move across the country (like we did) for a better climate of opportunity. Others sit on their butts and expect to be taken care of without working.
Another thing to think about is what happens when you’ve exchanged years of your life, as you suggest above, for an expected outcome, yet it doesn’t transpire. Example: my cousin has worked for Buick on the plant floor for 30 years. This is not the most pleasant environment – misogynistic, dirty, loud, with temperature extremes, and bare-boned accoutrements. She was promised, and expected, retirement and a pension at this point. There was no reason to believe that she wouldn’t get it. Hundreds of thousands of workers before her, including her father and other relatives, did. Yet, now, there is the distinct possibility she won’t if GM goes under or through bankruptcy. She is 53 years old with specialized technical skills that may or may not be marketable. So, she made an ongoing deal, and her partner in that deal could re-neg.
Then there is another outlook: your job may not ever be your passion. Instead, you may decide that you’ll punch the clock and exchange your 40 hours per week for what they pay you, leave everything there when you punch out, and pursue your passion outside of that relationship. There’s something to be said for that disassociation.
Are we who we are, or what we do?
Charlie responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 5:54 am →
I’m probably in the camp that you thought would disagree with you who, but, in theory, I don’t. It’s highly contextual: if you’re doing what you love (or at least like), in a good community of folks, and have some stability in your career, then a 9-5 can be great. As I’ve said elsewhere, you’re in the lucky position of being paid to be excellent.
I’ve found that creatives have a hard time fitting in the 9-5 mold because the organizations around them get stuck doing what they’ve historically done well and don’t have a whole lot of room for making changes to ideas or products after their initial success. Creatives can be innovators, and sometimes innovators have a hard time finding a home in organizations that are content to crank the same profitable widgets.
Your comments on the health issue are really important and too often forgotten. And you’re dead on that many people quit one grind to end up in a worse one. The sad fact is that once you go solo, your identity is so tied up into what you do that recognizing you were better off before you were on your own ends up causing identity crises in people. “I quit a good job and have been working my a$$ off for years – this is who I am…working for someone else is something I can’t do.” So on and so forth until you’re sick, dead, or so flat on your a$$ that you have to make changes.
Great post, Vered. And thanks a ton for the link!
Miranda responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 6:11 am →
Great post! I think it is important to remember that everyone is different, and that what might work for one person may not be ideal for another. It’s all about what works for you and your lifestyle. Personally, though, I feel blessed to be able to make a living working from home.
Dot responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 7:22 am →
I support everyone’s right to choose what’s right for them, as you do, so no disagreement here, especially since I deliberately chose to keep my 9-to-5. Another advantage to 9-5 that doesn’t get mentioned enough is the social life. Having colleagues who are going through the very same things is very supportive. Where I work, we have a really great group of people (thanks to someone who is very skilled at hiring), and I miss their camaraderie even on the weekends. Working at home would force me to seek company at cafes and diners, or perhaps at the library (shhh! no talking!) or the mall. Online friends are wonderful, too, but there’s nothing like a knowing look or a sympathetic pat on the shoulder in “real” life.
I had moved out of my job as a legal secretary, which was something that had “chosen me” more than something I chose, into IT and finally reached my goal of learning programming and getting paid for it, when the dot com crash led to my being laid off. Database programming jobs were few and far between, and I hadn’t learned enuogh to impress anyone yet. Taking a hard look around, I realized that I wasn’t making any more money than I had as a legal secretary, if I left the legal field I wouldn’t have the benefits package I had, and I didn’t like programming under pressure. So this time I CHOSE to be a legal secretary, and have been much more comfortable with the job as a result of accepting my own choice. It’s not perfect, but what is?
I do wish I hadn’t been such a jerk about saving and investing in my youth. In fact, the whole subject still makes me shudder and want to run away, and I’m paying for that now with a very iffy picture for ever retiring.
Dr. J responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 7:30 am →
9-5 for a surgeon? LOL!! That is a pipe dream! It is a labor of love, however, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. But don’t ask me to say that at 3:AM while fixing someone after an auto wreck
Writer Dad responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 7:38 am →
Excellent point, Vered. Every one. Each of us is different. For some, a nine to five does make a lot of sense. The question isn’t the job, it’s the fulfillment. My previous, previous job was running a flower shop. My hours were five in the morning to four in the afternoon, and I worked over sixty hours a week. It was a lot more confining then a regular nine to five, but also creatively rewarding. Dot is also brings up an excellent point about the social aspect of a nine to five. It’s nice to be around, and interacting with, other people. A computer screen is great, but sometimes we want to see a smile.
Wesley responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 7:48 am →
I don’t take any issue with people wanting to work 9 to 5 jobs at all, so long as they hold themselves no higher than those who work from 8 to 4 or 10 to 6. Hehehe, I’m just kidding. Looking at it that way many self-employed people likely work from 9 to 5 too.
Seriously though, someone has to do these jobs, so it’s a good thing that there are people who want to do them. I just think people need to realize that they are limiting themselves when they do. If they’re fine with that and want the security, good for them! But when you choose to get paid for your time rather than results, you’re putting a limit on how much you can make.
Giyen responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 8:00 am →
I am embarking on the journey from high-paying job to freelance writer. It’s really scary but I have never been more happy in my life. What keeps me moving forward is my biggest fear of all – ending up in a job that I dislike for the rest of my life. Sure, I have less money, but that never made me happy anyway. : )
Writer Dad responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 8:15 am →
Vered, I forgot to say thank you for the link love. I have given myself both a time out, and forty lashes with a wet noodle. THANKS.
Sara at On Simplicity responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 8:50 am →
As with so many things in life, “Do what works for you” applies to work as well. Another reason I hesitate to leave my 9-5 is the crowd of people I work with. I’m well aware that I may never again have the good fortune of being surrounded by such an incredible, supportive group of people. There’s certainly validity in both traditional and nontraditional work. I’ve tried both, and for the moment, enjoy the security and consistency of traditional work, since those qualities let me enjoy my free time as such: free.
Still, I’m excited about the day when I won’t be spending 40 hours away from home. 30 would create a huge difference in my work-life balance. I really enjoyed your take here, Vered, and appreciate the food for thought.
Tabitha (From Single to Married) responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 8:54 am →
I tend to think that the grass is greener, at least for me. I have a “real” job and work a fairly flexible schedule but I dream of the day when I can work for myself. My husband thinks that when that day comes, I will miss working in the corporate world and will want to go back. Right now I disagree with him but he may be right.
Tim Brownson responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 8:58 am →
Thanks for your kind mention Vered.
It is brilliant o be getting up in the morning excited by the day ahead, rather than dreading yet another sales presentation and whether hitting 200% of quote would be sufficient to keep my boss off my back.
I don’t know many people that start to work for themselves that later regret it, but I do know lots that wished they’d started working for themselves and ver got round to it.
My advice is if you have any inclination, to do it and enjoy the ride.
Suzie responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 9:39 am →
I need to get away from my hosue each day and see people. It makes me crazy to work from home and be my own boss. I hate it
Kim Woodbridge responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 9:51 am →
There are many things I like about 9-5. I like the structure and the routine of it. What I find difficult is the lack of flexibility – I need more than what a traditional job allows. I am also not a particularly social person so I would not miss that aspect of a 9-5 job. So, because of the flexibility issue I am working toward freelancing full-time.
I don’t think one way is better than another. We are all different.
MommyNamedApril responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 10:02 am →
I can’t see anything to disagree with, considering you were letting us know your opinion. It’s yours and you can have it. I won’t begrudge you that.
For me, I was pretty miserable doing the 9-5 thing. But then, I was a ridiculously overworked insurance defense attorney. It was never 9 to 5 and often ended up being seven days a week. I even got called home from vacation once. That being said, it wasn’t all bad. Some of the work was interesting. And I loved (still do!) the research and writing. Nowadays I’m staying home with the kiddos and helping Hubs with his business. It’s (mostly) great, but I suspect I’ll want to rejoin the working force at some point. Probably not in the same capacity as before though.
You’re so so so right about the working from home/running your own endeavor thing. Hubs has his own business which can be so very awesome. It’s allowing him to go back to school and seek a secondary degree, It lets him join us on random mid-day adventures, and he gets to be his own boss. That being said, he never wants to say ‘no’ to a project (understandable, what if they write us off for good?), he takes calls at all hours of the day (and night) regardless of where we are or what we’re doing, and he will often work seven days a week.
I don’t know if there’s any perfect answer what’s ‘right’ is different for everyone. I, wholeheartedly, agree with the saving money concept. We did that while we were both busting our butts in the ’9-5′ world and it’s why I’ve been able to stay home and Hubs has been able to launch his own business. Hopefully these choices will pay off in the future, rather than depleting our savings and sending us back to square one
Sorry for the novel!
apricot tea. responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 10:04 am →
Thank you for including me amongst your many reads. :]
I think you bring up some very good points. It’s all about personal preference. I think some people are made for working 9-5 jobs; my parents do very well with this. But I, personally, want more for my life. I want more freedom & more leniency. I’ve never been the 9-5 person. I’ve always been a bit unconventional in my efforts to “work.”
Nevertheless, you made me think. :] & thank you.
Mark responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 10:12 am →
“people always talk about the “nine to five grind”, but working for yourself can create an even worse grind”
Very true….there are benefits to both sides of he road. Is the glass half empty or half full? The grass isn’t always greener on the other side! I am full of cliches today!
Nice post!
Mrs. Micah responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 10:16 am →
After a year of combined part-time work and freelance, I find the thought of 9-5 exciting. I’m not a very nice boss to myself and I always feel insecure even if I do take the time off to do things for fun and nurture myself. Afterwards I go on real guilt trips.
So the thought of having work which I can put down at the end of the shift (most days) is pretty exciting. I feel like in drawing better boundaries between my personal life and my work life, I’ll have a fuller personal life.
I wanted to do NaNoWriMo this month, for example, but I couldn’t allow myself the time. If I were doing this blogging and consulting purely as a hobby, then perhaps I could step back and give myself a lighter month. Heck, I could turn down any consulting jobs since I wouldn’t need the extra income. But even though I could probably spare the time even now, I won’t let myself do it. *sigh*
Of course, if the job itself were to make me miserable (as my last job did, since I couldn’t work with my boss’s extreme negativity…and the lack of windows) or if the job required a lot of overtime, then I’d be better off being my own “mean” boss.
Plus, my end goal is to work in libraries…and there aren’t many freelance librarian positions available.
Being in a library environment makes me much happier than any office.
Jannie responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 10:32 am →
There is a lot to be said for a routine, feels nice and stable. I remember the old pre-kid 9 to 5 days and the 5:05 Happy Hours.
But now I don’t have to “work ” the grind as such, and am loving this. With my girl’s school schedule I get the stability of a routine, with the bonus of lots of freedom to work on my music and my blog. (Spoiled in Texas.)
Don Mills Diva responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 10:35 am →
I couldn’t agree more. I work in the film and television industry but in an administrative capacity that is largely nine to five. The older i get the more grateful I am that I am not one of the freelance filmmakers/ producers/ technicians I work with. It sounds glamourous but it’s HARD. My husband has done it for 20 years and he woudl kill for a nine to five gig. I have come to realize that I am a creature of routine and I enjoy my routine. I have a wonderful job, I work with ineresting people and I know where I fit and I can really do things because I am not tied up worrying about the next gig, or the horrendous hours I have to put in – it just feels healthier and more conducive to a better quality of life overall…
MomGrind responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 11:09 am →
@ J.D. Meier: “That means a shift from a time focus to a value focus. That’s why opportunities like a 4 hr work week are possible.” True, although a 4-hour week seems a bit extreme. I could live with a 4-hour day and actually this IS very achievable if you’re efficient and good at what you do, whether you work for someone else or for yourself.
@ Cath Lawson: “But he now has a pretty good career.” – This is exactly what I’m saying. If you’re good, you’ll likely do very well whether you work for someone else or you’re self-employed.
@ Mike Goad: “But then the company became the corporation and started to standardize things and hired corporate execs who were fixers, even though nothing was broke.” Corporate bureaucracy IS a big problem, as is reporting to a boss that you don’t respect. Mike, I always think of you as a great example of someone who had a good, solid career and managed his finances wisely so that he could retire early and enjoy travel and his hobbies while he is still young.
@ Avital: Being an attorney was definitely the wrong career for me. So I left. But that doesn’t mean all jobs are bad. I’ve since worked in a couple of Silicon Valley startups and was very happy with my situation. I’ve been working part time since the kids were born, but if I didn’t have kids, I think 9-5 (or actually 9:30-6:30 as is the case in many Silicon Valley jobs) would have been fine.
“I remember the money flowing into my bank account every month” – this is very, very important. People tend to forget that having good income is in itself an important accomplishment. I do think that if you have a dream – writing for a living, right? – then you should give it a try. A real try. But I’m also saying that it’s not the only path.
@ Davina: I agree that there’s no need to put labels on what people do. I also think that being laid off is a great opportunity to explore the option of being self-employed.
@ Lance: “The key, I think – is in enjoying what you do – in really finding passion from it.” So that’s exactly what I’m not so sure about. Sometimes I think that our generation – both the X and the Y generations actually – want too much. We want to love what we do. To be excited about our work. Being content is not enough anymore. If you read Mike Goad’s comment – and he’s from a different generation – he epitomizes “content.” Not ecstatic, not passionate. Simply, content. I think he had a great career and managed his life very well. But our generation wants more.
@ Betsy Wuebker: “your job may not ever be your passion. Instead, you may decide that you’ll punch the clock and exchange your 40 hours per week for what they pay you, leave everything there when you punch out, and pursue your passion outside of that relationship. There’s something to be said for that disassociation.” I think this is what I’m trying to say. No one needs to be in an abusive work relationship with a nasty boss. But if your work is OK and the pay is good, if you can disconnect from it when you leave the office and do your own stuff, then that’s not such a bad deal.
@ Charlie: “many people quit one grind to end up in a worse one.” Exactly. I also think that hating what you do for a living is sad, but you don’t need to love it. A job that you like, or even a job that’s just OK, is fine.
@ Miranda: I absolutely agree that it’s a personal choice and that what works for one person may not necessarily work for another.
@ Dot: “Taking a hard look around, I realized that I wasn’t making any more money than I had as a legal secretary.” This is a key sentence. I think that for many who are self-employed, if they calculated their pay-per-hour they would realize they are being paid very little compared to what a job would pay them. If they love what they do and are willing to earn less, that’s fine – as long as they don’t kill themselves working too hard.
Re saving and investing, it’s never too late, or rather better late than never. Try fool.com for the basics and a free consultation with a financial planner wouldn’t hurt, although generally I don’t trust them.
@ Dr. J: I don’t know how you do it.
@ Writer Dad: I agree that the social aspect is important to. People like to complain about their coworkers, but many of them are actually friends.
The time out was unnecessary, but I appreciate the forty lashes with a wet noodle.
@ Wesley: “But when you choose to get paid for your time rather than results, you’re putting a limit on how much you can make.” True. Although in more creative work environments, you are paid for your output in the sense that if you’re good, you advance quickly and are paid very well.
@ Giyen: I’m glad you joined the conversation. I’m guessing you’re a highly creative type, and as Charlie said, for creative types, the corporate environment is tough. I wish you good luck! I’m excited for you.
@ Sara: “I enjoy the security and consistency of traditional work, since those qualities let me enjoy my free time as such: free.” You said it really, really well.
@ Tabitha: Many people try being self-employed and end up going back to the corporate world. There’s nothing wrong with trying. If you don’t give it a try – a real try – you will never know.
@ Tim Brownson: You HATED your job. You had a horrible demanding boss. But what if your job was OK?
“My advice is if you have any inclination, to do it and enjoy the ride.” I agree. If you hate your job, or if you’re laid off, you should definitely give self-employment a try. If your job is OK, that’s a tougher call. Lance and Sara are good examples.
@ Suzie: The social aspect IS an important one.
@ Kim Woodbridge: “I don’t think one way is better than another. We are all different.” I agree.
@ MommyNamedApril: Please don’t apologize. It was very interesting to read your perspective. A job that makes you work 7 days a week and calls you home from vacation doesn’t sound like a very good deal to me, unless you’re paid VERY well. It’s great that you were able to save. Becoming self-employed is a financial risk for sure, but these days with all the layoffs, almost nothing is secure.
@ Apricot tea: It’s very good that you know yourself and know that a conventional job will not work for you.
@ Mark: I agree that there advantages and disadvantages to either choice.
@ Mrs. Micah: “So the thought of having work which I can put down at the end of the shift (most days) is pretty exciting. I feel like in drawing better boundaries between my personal life and my work life, I’ll have a fuller personal life.” I couldn’t agree more – this is one of the main advantages of a “real job”. Betsy also mentioned it above. I also agree that this is only true if the job – or the boss – are not making you miserable.
@ Jannie: I stopped working 9-5 after the kids were born too. I’ve been working part time or from home ever since. But if I didn’t have kids, I’m pretty sure I would have a real fulltime job.
@ Don Mills Diva: “It sounds glamourous but it’s HARD.” EXACTLY. Working for yourself sounds good, but the grind, the uncertainty, and the long hours are often way worse than any 9-5 job.
Carla responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 12:29 pm →
For me a 9-5 = health insurance. I am not insurable outside of a group policy and my partner works for himself, so that that doesn’t leave much choice for now unless I want to tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills again (just finished paying it off few years ago). At the same time, I am working at my own business. A full-time job and side business. I guess I’m doing both without the benefits of staying home.
Hunter Nuttall responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 1:22 pm →
First of all, I’m out of wet noodles, so let me say thanks for the link love up front.
The 9-5 is to me what spirituality is to you.
Still, I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. Being self-employed can definitely be much worse than a job if you’re working way too hard and not making any money.
And yes, many people are perfectly happy with a job. I’m not sure if it’s possible for me though. But I don’t know if that’s because of who I am, or because I haven’t found the right job.
My most recent job was probably my favorite, because I really liked my bosses, and the work was usually OK. But the money was pathetic as usual. And then they hired a psycho (seriously, he stopped taking his bipolar meds, attacked someone, and got committed). And then my bosses left. And then the company went out of business.
So it was relatively nice while it lasted, but when I go back to work, it will just be another crapshoot. Will it be worse than a death sentence? I’ll just have to see.
Having said that, self-employment isn’t automatically paradise either. But if I could make decent money by working decent hours on something I liked without having a boss, I’d find that a million times better than any job. YMMV.
Tricia responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 1:37 pm →
I’ve done both, and agree that 9-5 has its advantages. I’m a fourth-generation entrepreneur and working for someone else always felt really alien to me, but I think it’s a wonderful endeavor and it takes different personalities to succeed in each environment. I miss the people aspect of working a 9-5 with other professionals; I don’t miss all the management meetings.
Tom Volkar / Delightful Work responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 1:45 pm →
Absolutely it’s possible to be happy and make a ton of money as an employee. As you may know I often write about employment being slavery but that’s only for the folks who want to escape and don’t. Hell, if your happy and you know – stay where you are.
It also depends on what you value. I’m basically unemployable because I refuse to let other choose when and how my freedom of choice is exercised.
Marelisa responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 1:47 pm →
Hi Vered: I think that it’s good to start out with a job so you can learn the ins and outs of running your own company. However, the person you’re working for is leveraging your time to further his/her agenda; by working for yourself you learn to leverage your time to pursue your own goals and agendas. So I think that eventually everyone should become their own boss. Now what you describe here sounds good too: Work for someone else until your late thirties, invest your earnings wisely, and then live off the interest. I’m the oldest of five and I’ve never been a conformist
RC Rambles... responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 1:56 pm →
There is a reason my blog is for fun and entertainment, and that I didn’t turn my side job (firefighting) into my primary job. I know how mundane the most exciting task can become, when you are REQUIRED to complete it.
I’m not always happy in my 9-5, but since I’ve been here for many years, I have more freedoms in the form of additional vacation time, flexible scheduling and the ability to work from home for one day per week (more if I have it approved as needed, but I don’t push my luck).
I love writing, and now blogging, but I don’t want it to be a requirement, or I lose some of my pleasure in it. I truly enjoy firefighting, especially when I was more actively involved prior to Little Dude entering my life, but I knew I would lose that passion if it became my bread and butter.
The good news – I have some fall-back career choices. The bad news – yes, I still report to “the man.” I think I can handle it – but then we’ll see what life brings with the economy and as Little Dude gets older.
Dr. J responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 2:08 pm →
Vered!
The software at CalorieLab only reads the English alphabet so here is the response to your appreciated post on my site!
?? ????! ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????!
Dr. J responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 2:15 pm →
Well, sorry! I printed in Hebrew, a response. Lo siento mucho!
Dr. J
Kelly@SHE-POWER responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 2:37 pm →
I agree with you completely. There is no RIGHT way because we all need different things and have different visions of a rewarding life. The problem is too often we all think our best life is also someone else’s. Personally I tried giving myself to the system and going for the big bucks, but I never fit in, I was always struggling to be someone else and I felt a massive hole inside that could only be filled up with lots of alcohol and drugs and months spent bumming around the world meeting people who felt more like me. And one of my best friends is extremely successful in the business world we both started out in. She loves her job, is more than well rewarded and as a new mother is still being pursued for a big promotion. So, while her days ahead are sure to be challenging with all the juggling, she is HER dream.
I am also glad some people like the 9-5 grind because otherwise who would be our teachers, nurses, doctors, ambulance officers – you know those ESSENTIAL members of society who work for so much more than the money. Telling them they’ve got it wrong and should work for themselves as some online entrepreneur or something just seems demeaning to the important work they do and the satisfaction some of them get from it.
It all comes down to making personal choices that make you happy, I think. Clear and simple.
Kelly
Kelly@SHE-POWER responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 2:40 pm →
Just read my comment and it seems I’m not yet awake. I meant:
“I was always struggling to be someone else and I felt a massive hole inside that could only be filled up with lots of alcohol and drugs and months spent bumming around the world meeting people who felt more like me. However, one of my best friends is extremely successful in the business world we both started out in. She loves her job, is more than well rewarded and as a new mother is still being pursued for a big promotion. So, while her days ahead are sure to be challenging with all the juggling, she is pursuing HER dream.”
Coffee. I need coffee.
Kel
Carla responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 3:27 pm →
Good points Kelly. I think some people tend to forget that we still need police officers, fire fighters, social workers and the other professions you mentioned. They are not all working from home.
MomGrind responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 3:43 pm →
@ Carla: “A full-time job and side business.” Wow. You’re a busy woman.
@ Hunter: This comment of yours reminded me of how much I like you. You are so open and honest and down to earth. I love those qualities.
“But I don’t know if that’s because of who I am, or because I haven’t found the right job.” That’s an interesting question.
“If I could make decent money by working decent hours on something I liked without having a boss, I’d find that a million times better than any job.” I think this is realistic and probably achievable. I’m rooting for you.
@ Tricia: “I don’t miss all the management meetings.” No doubt, corporate bureaucracy is a huge problem.
@ Tom: “I’m basically unemployable because I refuse to let other choose when and how my freedom of choice is exercised.” Hmm… it’s true that at the beginning of any career, you have to pretty much obey your boss. But in a good career, and especially if you saved and invested over the years, there comes a point where you can choose your boss and only work in a collaborative environment where you work WITH the boss rather then under or for the boss. Of course, you can also become the boss (CEO or a top executive).
@ Marelisa: The oldest of five? It’s interesting to learn this about you, especially since I agree: you don’t seem to be a conformist at all.
@ RC: You are so smart. It’s so true that once something becomes our fulltime job – even if it’s freelancing – it’s not “fun” anymore. I look at top bloggers and sure, so many people want to be like them, but the pressure they’re under to keep producing content is considerable. People think they’ll be “free” once they don’t work for a boss, but you’re never really free are you? You work for clients, for demanding readers. There’s always some kind of pressure – unless you made enough money that you can live off your passive income. Even then, there’s the pressure of possibly losing your money.
@ Dr. J: Usted habla Hebreo? Nah. I don’t believe you.
But if you do, that’s pretty awesome.
@ Kelly: “Telling them they’ve got it wrong and should work for themselves as some online entrepreneur or something just seems demeaning to the important work they do and the satisfaction some of them get from it.” Kelly, this is so true. We can’t all be entrepreneurs – and we shouldn’t. There are many ways to be happy and fulfilled.
Beth Partin responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 4:20 pm →
There’s so much talk in the blogosphere about passive income, it’s good to hear the other side.
I haven’t had a “real job” for almost two decades, and I think that’s the right choice for me. But setting limits on working at home has definitely become a priority for me lately. Thanks for an insightful post, and for the comment from Friar.
Friar responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 4:39 pm →
@Hi Vered
Hey, thanks for the Link Love!
And THANK YOU for an honest discussion about 9-to-5 work. It’s about time someone talked about it!
It makes no difference to me how people earn a living. Whatever floats your boat. But the reason I ranted/poked fun on my last post is that sometimes, I can’t help but notice a bit of SMUGNESS from (not all), but SOME of the self-employed bloggers.
“Oh my God, how can you stand a cubicle job? Oh my God, I could NEVER do that…look at me, I’m self-actualizing, I’m my own boss..while you’ve sold out..you’re in a rut, working 9-to-5.”
And then you read between-the-lines, many of these people work long hours (to the point of endangering their health) and are struggling financially. This is the part they hardly ever mention.
As for me, my 9-to-5 job isn’t great. I barely tolerate it.
On the other hand…it pays well. Four weeks vacatation, medical benefits, paid sick leave. I’m single, but I can afford a modest house and keep my car on the road. I can afford to eat out. And treat myself to the occasional ski trip.
But best of all, my day is OVER at 4:30. Weekends and evenings are all free. That give me plenty of time to blog, fish, paint, and enjoy myself. I can work on whatever creative projects I want, without stressing out over meeting a client deadline or how to pay for groceries and rent.
So yes, I’m not my own boss, and my work can suck.
But there are also a lot of good points about my job too. And so far, these outweigh the bad.
Robin responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 4:57 pm →
I think many people are best off working in large organisations such as government bureaucracies, educational institutions, etc – and you can’t really do that if you work for yourself – not very quickly, anyway!
When I was a high-school teacher this was an issue for me – I wanted to leave, but the pull of being in a community of around 1000 people on a daily basis made it a difficult decision to make. Someone pointed out to me that I would take my networking abilities with me into whatever I did – and that has happened, but I was isolated for quite a while, as well. I still think that for many people, working in a very large organisation is what uses their skills best, and is the most exciting.
Christina Narciso responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 5:55 pm →
Wow… what a topic! I have a couple friends who have opted out of the 9-5 job and work odd jobs. And I have some friends that are self-employed. I myself have a 9-5 job that can be stressful at times, but I like it because I have a set schedule and it allows me to be able to handle other matters of life outside of work. I agree with you, I think having a 9-5 job can be enjoyable depending on your boss, the job, and the advancement.
Raag responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 8:43 pm →
Gosh!
How I wish I could give up my 9 to 5 job and be at liberty to do what I wish.
Besides that, my constant thought is will I ever be able to get some ‘Me Time’ even if I were to give up the 9 to 5 rigmarole. Then I ping pong to wondering how long will I last without that routine.
Life keeps passing by doing what we are supposed to instead of what we love to.
Hmmn…always wanting what is not.
But a good discussion Vered ! I could go on and on and on this Catch 22 situation.
MomGrind responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 8:52 pm →
@ Beth Partin: “setting limits on working at home has definitely become a priority for me lately.” I think this is one of the biggest challenges when working from home.
@ Friar: “But best of all, my day is OVER at 4:30. Weekends and evenings are all free. That give me plenty of time to blog, fish, paint, and enjoy myself. I can work on whatever creative projects I want, without stressing out over meeting a client deadline or how to pay for groceries and rent.” You just described the best thing about being employed. It often means a better life balance than being your own boss, even if being your own boss sounds more glamorous.
@ Robin: “I still think that for many people, working in a very large organisation is what uses their skills best, and is the most exciting.” True, although many others love to work for small organizations. Especially here in the Valley, I know lots of people who move from one stratup to the next. Once a startup becomes bigger and bureaucracy rears its ugly head, they move on.
@ Christina Narciso: “I think having a 9-5 job can be enjoyable depending on your boss, the job, and the advancement.” Exactly.
@ Raag: You say “How I wish I could give up my 9 to 5 job and be at liberty to do what I wish.” I think most people would agree. But the question I’m asking here is a little different. I’m not asking if you would prefer a 9 to 5 job or not to work at all… the assumption is that we need to work because we need the income, and then the question: is being employed inferior to being your own boss.
I also agree that even not working at all does not necessarily lead to happiness. It often leads to boredom.
Barbara Swafford - Blogging Without A Blog responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 9:07 pm →
Hi Vered – I’ve done both – worked for “the man” and now am self employed. They both have advantages and disadvantages, but I do believe not everyone is cut out to be self employed. As much as some will say their 9-5 is stressful, being self employed can be stressful 24/7. Although I prefer self employment, I wouldn’t have a problem working 9-5 as long as the job was challenging, paid decent and provided benefits.
Carla responds:
Posted: November 12th, 2008 at 9:34 pm →
@Vered – ““A full-time job and side business.” Wow. You’re a busy woman. ”
Yes, I am pretty busy and its almost too much for me right now. I thought I could “do it all”, especially at the young age of 30, but its not for everyone and probably not for me. The idea was to get myself to where my business would be all I need. I thought I could “pay my dues” like everyone else and I wonder how DO they do it without killing themselves. NOT working is NOT an option – my partner would kill me if I decided to throw in the “working towel” LOL! I have to really figure out if my health in the meantime is worth sacrificing though.
Maya responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 6:07 am →
As I take the plunge into self-employment, I realize how much your post applies to me. I am the kind that does not know when to stop …and surely, I do let stress get the better of me a LOT of times. But having my own company has been a dream and doing all that I am doing is such great learning. But i understand that while I work and learn harder, the falls will be harder too …. I guess which I why I have chosen this time in my life to start my own company – when I think my husband has a stable job and I have some cushion. And the kids too …the kids are too little, but I am using them as a reason to take it slow. I know the pace will HAVE to and WILL work itself up, but I guess that is a necessary evil.
I would like to accomplish something really big here and then go back to the 9:00 to 5:00 later in life. There is a certain joy in the fact that we do not have to feel guilty about taking time off – am not sure that is ever possible when we work for ourselves … no “paid-time-off” w/o a load of guilt here!
veena responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 6:37 am →
hi Vered !
yup sometimes a 9 to 5 job is not only sensible but it can also be a stepping stone to fulfilling your dreams. It’s a big bonus if you like what you do!
Do You Have Business Questions? responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 9:33 am →
[...] is right for you, you might want to check out the argument from both sides of the fence in: In Defence of The Nine To Five Grind and Does A Business Start Up Have To Be [...]
Raag responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 10:11 am →
Vered your reply to the comment: @ Christina Narciso:
“I think having a 9-5 job can be enjoyable depending on your boss, the job, and the advancement.” Exactly.
Oh what a profoundly true statement…
I am going to use it a sa management quote.
Thanks Christina.
Every day is a new learning day. My learning for the day.
Vered, i love your blog.
Kikolani | Poetry, Photography, Blogging Tips responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 10:31 am →
I personally like the security in having a 9 – 5 job. Sometimes, creativity runs in spurts, and I would hate to depend on it for my livelihood on a down spell. Plus, having a set work schedule gives you the opportunity to know when you can work on other endeavors. I have worked in retail with a “flexible” schedule, which sounds good until you realize it means they schedule you anytime they want you, with no consistency. That is a creativity killer, because you can never make time to do anything.
~ Kristi
Natural responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 5:10 pm →
i have a 9 to 5, but truth is, i rather be home.
when i work for myself par-time, it’s not easy, you have to put in a lot of hours. people assume that when you work part-time you can come and go whenever you want, take vacations when you want when actually it’s not like that. it takes a while for a business to succeed and in the beginning most of your time is spent working your butt off.
as mentioned not everyone can be self employed and not everyone can work for the man. i always say do whatever is best for you and your family whatever it is.
MomGrind responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 6:30 pm →
@ Barbara Swafford: “As much as some will say their 9-5 is stressful, being self employed can be stressful 24/7.” Exactly.
@ Carla: That sounds very stressful. So you’re thinking of giving up the business?
@ Maya: I wish you success! The fact that your husband has a job that provides for your family and I’m assuming provides health insurance too is great. It’s a lot less stressful this way than starting a business that must support your family, and it’s also emotionally easier and less stressful than living off of savings.
@ veena: It’s true. People have lots of different dreams and not all of them involve being your own boss.
@ Raag: Thank you! You made me smile AND blush.
@ Kikolani: “Sometimes, creativity runs in spurts, and I would hate to depend on it for my livelihood on a down spell.” I agree. Creating for a living is stressful, although I’m sure anyone who does it for a living has systems in place to ensure that they always have new material.
@ Natural: It’s amazing that people think they can start a business – especially an online business – and make easy money right away.
Evelyn Lim responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 6:54 pm →
Thanks for the link love.
I may have quit my previous job as a banker but it does not mean that I think my decision is for everyone. I still hang out with my friends from the banking sector. In fact, I find that they love what they do, on top of enjoying their generous remuneration. They may bitch or complain about their bosses but in reality, they have no desire to be self employed.
My opinion is that an online business can be just as and if not more stressful than a 9 to 5 job. There is a lot to handle everyday. To start off, you are a one-person operation trying to juggle everything. Everything is new and there is a steep learning curve to climb as well. You also need to deal with some of your friends who think that you are not holding down a “real” job and therefore should be very free!!
Zandria responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 7:55 pm →
I’d like to work from home, but there are advantages to having a 9-5, too. For instance: still getting paid if you’re not doing much work at all. (Shhhhh! Don’t tell.) Sometimes there just isn’t a lot to do, and it sucks that I still have to be there for my 8 hours…but there are worse things than getting paid to sit in front of a computer and read blogs. Also? Paid vacation is nice.
Bamboo Forest responds:
Posted: November 13th, 2008 at 9:24 pm →
I think this was a very balanced take on the subject.
I think, as you seem to point out, that everyone is different. What is fine, good – or even fulfilling for some won’t be for others.
You make a good point about comparing 9-5 to self employment. The 9-5 job could be much less hectic than the self employment path.
Diana Rupert responds:
Posted: November 14th, 2008 at 1:22 am →
I do agree to Bamboo. We all have different wants. It is up to the person on what he/she likes to do. The question is are they enjoying what they are doing or they just do it for some purpose? There is nothing to worry if you enjoy what you doing. As long as it is right. Keep it up.
Thank you
Scott McIntyre responds:
Posted: November 14th, 2008 at 4:19 am →
A great debate going on here, Vered.
About 10 years ago, I experienced several months of unemployment and the main issue I found was adjusting to the loss of the ‘routine’ of the 9-5 job.
Having a structure to your day is essential to psychological health. That’s the reason people who lose their jobs are prone to depression- they suddenly lose the set pattern to their days.
I found it very helpful to immediately replace the routine of the office with a new one.
Therefore, I scheduled in activities such as: job hunting; going to the gym; writing; visiting friends etc … Anything that gave me a sense of a new, regular routine.
I also had a spell where I worked from home- not as a freelancer, but as a homeworker for a company.
This experience brought challenges too. It was all too easy to blur the boundaries between work and leisure. I had to be very strict with my time so that my leisure time didn’t eat into my work time and vice versa.
So, if a person opts out of the traditional 9-5 routine in order to take up freelancing or home-based working, it is still key to develop a structure to the day.
Opting out of 9-5 can indeed be liberating, but the transition needs to be planned – or else the lack of focus can be a little unsettling.
MizFit responds:
Posted: November 14th, 2008 at 6:19 am →
ahhhhh TIMELY.
Im looking to perhaps head back that way.
Carla responds:
Posted: November 14th, 2008 at 11:27 am →
@Vered – I just started so I don’t think I’m ready to give it up yet.
I do need more rest though – its hard to know how to balance it all.
MomGrind responds:
Posted: November 14th, 2008 at 3:05 pm →
@ Evelyn: I think many employees love to complain about their boss and their coworkers, even though they are perfectly happy. I agree that an online business is often more stressful than a job.
@ Zandria: “there are worse things than getting paid to sit in front of a computer and read blogs.” Very true.
In addition, I have found that one can often initiate receiving more responsibilities, and if she’s good, a subsequent raise as well.
@ Bamboo Forest: “The 9-5 job could be much less hectic than the self employment path.” True. It’s also often less fulfilling, but as you say, I’m trying to show both sides here and basically say that there’s usually a price to pay. No choice is perfect.
@ Diana Rupert: “There is nothing to worry if you enjoy what you doing.” Absolutely.
@ Scott McIntyre: You are so smart. I agree with every single word you said. Most people do need structure – a routine. I read somewhere that retirees are happiest when they create a new routine, even if it’s a routine of leisure activities. Hmmm… ten years ago… I always assumed you were in your late twenties?
@ MizFit: Really? Back to 9 to 5? I had no idea you were considering that. Interesting. Also goes to show that people can move back and forth – that’s liberating in itself.
@ Carla: I hope you do find your balance.
Carla responds:
Posted: November 14th, 2008 at 3:10 pm →
I think an online business is especially stressful if you never done anything like it before. Its more than just starting from scratch. I never had a website, blog, never did any writing (besides basic writing at work), marketing or anything of the sort. Its great if this is something you’ve done in your 9-5 or at least went to school for it.
Its an adventure though!
Dominique responds:
Posted: November 14th, 2008 at 3:32 pm →
If jobs today were really 9-5pm it would be great…but in my field(Education) and in many cases in Asia most jobs are really 9am-9pm or beyond which at this moment in time/life is not what I wish as I do want to have a proper work-family life and spend time with the kids.
Am looking for a real 9-5pm job whereby I do get a stable income and am able to carry out all my duties well as mom & wife.
Patricia responds:
Posted: November 14th, 2008 at 4:47 pm →
I have never worked 9-5 for a salary so I can not respond to that concept. I have never not worked since I was 12 years old – picking in the fields, cleaning houses, and childcare to get clothes and to college. When I taught at colleges and was Campus Minister…my day just blended and my office was my car; located close to a pay phone. I waited tables and was an information operator for Ma Bell, worked a church on Wednesday nights and Sundays and cleaned houses. I sang for pay. I have never made a salary…I did make health insurance when I answered 911 all night long!
I was a fashion model, which paid very well for 3 months, and then was the announcer for a number of fashion shows in high school…got a per gig fee.
My honey now, loves architecture and he is so good at it….he never worked 9-5 for firms, but now he works nearly 24/7 because he owns the firm and loves his work….we don’t get a salary as he has 13 employees but we get the mortgage and food money and “feast or famine” income…we have learned to use money carefully and wisely to keep everyone employed even during the down times
Wow can I make $30,000 last and last and last…..and still save!
I am hoping blogging will help pay medical bills and give me a more comfortable retirement/but mainly I am hoping to be recognized as having something of value to say and write – to be acknowledged for my writing wisdom would be the best pay check….
I do love not having to prove myself in person to people anymore….and I do love not fund raising to keep a church going or a ecumenical non-profit…that just makes me tired to think about it. Making your own salary as you go plus paying for the infrastructure too…
Wow you have hit the nail on the head for me today…I better just make myself stop here. good post
Stacey / Create a Balance responds:
Posted: November 15th, 2008 at 1:33 pm →
I feel very fortunate to have my day job. It’s challenging and provides me with an opportunity to help people navigate through change. For now, it’s right where I need to be.
Jess Sanders responds:
Posted: November 16th, 2008 at 7:20 am →
In theory, I would love to be my own boss. I’m intrigued by taking creative inspiration and making a life out of it. It’s not the right time for my family, and that’s OK with me. I’m still not sure if I would really like being my own boss, or if I just like the dream.
Truth is at this moment in my life I LOVE my corporate gig. I make good money, I work with amazing people that I learn a lot from and have opportunities that I wouldn’t have if I were self employed. And it gives me healthcare, paid vacation, and a secure and predictable paycheck that allows my husband to stay home with our son. It’s great experience that may or may not lead to me being ready to be an entrepreneur when the timing is right. I am challenged and fulfilled 90% of the time.
And the other 10%? That wants to quit it all and go freelance write or start up my own venture? That’s why I am in the blogosphere
–Jess
MomGrind responds:
Posted: November 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm →
@ Carla: “Its an adventure though!” It most definitely is.
@ Dominique: 9am to 9pm is out of the question unless the compensation is very high. With such long hours, it does make more sense to start your own business.
@ Patricia: “Wow can I make $30,000 last and last and last…..and still save!” This is a very important skill. Making tons of money is meaningless if you end up spending it all and then some.
@ Stacey: You are lucky!
@ Jess Sanders: “I am challenged and fulfilled 90% of the time.” That’s pretty amazing. I don’t think too many self employed people can say that.
Leslie responds:
Posted: November 17th, 2008 at 2:21 pm →
Thanks for a thoughtful and comprehensive post!
I’m on the 15-year give-and-get plan, and though I remind myself of the payoff, it’s tough sometimes to want to pay in. I do it mostly for security — for insurance and other benefits; for the career flexibility/legacy that having a “big” job can offer; for future freedom. It requires a little more Office than I’d like to have in my life, and I’d love to try going it on my own with a more creative venture, but the risk stops me. But it’s nice to be reminded that my commitment now might set me up to take that leap later. And in that way, the nine-to-five grind (unfortunately in these parts, it’s eight to five) IS good to me. As hard as it is for me to spend all of those hours away from home, I have a relatively fun job doing something I think is good, thanks to help from great people.
MomGrind responds:
Posted: November 17th, 2008 at 9:21 pm →
@ Leslie: Sounds like you’re in a good place right now. Sure, it’s not perfect, but what is? I wouldn’t rule out starting your own business if this is what you really want. But anyone who does so, needs to realize that being your own boss does not guarantee happiness or fulfillment.
Monika Mundell responds:
Posted: November 21st, 2008 at 11:48 pm →
Hi Vered,
What a thought provoking and inspiring post this is. I totally side with you in the believe that working from home isn’t for everyone. In fact, most people are perfectly happy with their 9-5. I would also agree with an earlier comment who mentioned that without the 9-5s we would be without nurses, doctors and what not.
From my perspective though and with the experience I had, despite my illness due to overworking myself and not looking after my health, I would never willingly go back to employment in the traditional sense. It matters a lot how much one loves their job, the line of work they do and the way they get treated at work. I think all these factors play into the mix once somebody decides they have had enough of the 9-5 grind.
Anyway, great discussion and thank you so much for the link too. I’m sorry this comes late.
squawkfox » Snow, Rain, and Slush Oh My! responds:
Posted: November 23rd, 2008 at 1:09 am →
[...] In Defense Of The Nine To Five Grind | MomGrind [...]
Alex Fayle | Someday Syndrome responds:
Posted: December 10th, 2008 at 8:22 am →
I wish I could be a 9-5er. Life would be so much easier and much more straight forwarded.
I admire those who are and who choose to consciously.
Us non-9-5ers see too many people who work that way without actually stopping and thinking about if it’s something they want to do or if they’re just doing it because everyone else seems to be.
There’s nothing better in working for someone else or working for yourself – my judgment comes into play when people do either because they are on autopilot or because of peer pressure (of one sort or another).
New Year resolutions | Green + Chic responds:
Posted: December 14th, 2008 at 1:51 pm →
[...] to start a business because your buddies are working from home now and you’re still doing the 9-5 grind even though you’re happy with it? Do you want to do something only because your parents [...]
Where did the time go? Green and Chic Birthday | Green + Chic responds:
Posted: June 1st, 2009 at 11:57 am →
[...] will make you laugh, cry, angry or somewhere in between. Some of my favorite posts includes In defense of the nine to five grind and Blog Monetization: Why is it such a big [...]