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Female Athletes’ Skimpy Outfits

104 Responses to: “Female Athletes’ Skimpy Outfits”

1. Amanda @ The Mom Crowd responds:
   Posted: December 1st, 2008 at 10:38 pm →

   Have you seen the photo of Kerry Walsh in a bikini top printed with a photo of boobs? That may be a little sexist. I do believe that some people watch because they are in bikinis. Hearing the athletes explain the sand problem and tan lines makes sense to me.

2. Squawkfox responds:
   Posted: December 1st, 2008 at 11:03 pm →

   As a Two-Time Ironman finisher and endurance athlete, I can honestly say I am FAR more comfortable wearing clothing (shorts, cycling jersey) over racing in a dang bathing suit. Perhaps I’m modest. But I like to keep everything under wraps and focus on my race, not a uniform malfunction.

3. Bob responds:
   Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 12:44 am →

   I’d like to offer a dissenting opinion. In fact, I”d like to argue that it is the MEN who are victims of societal norms in this case, in that they can’t wear skimpy clothing, bikinis, etc. without risk of being called unmanly. As an example, I would much rather run in a speedo than traditional men’s jogging shorts, which are too bulky, and I’m sure the same would hold for sports such as soccer, volleyball, etc. Just look at swimming: when men can get away with it, they WILL wear skimpy revealing clothing, simply because it DOES aid performance.

   This isn’t to say that the media never sexualizes female athletes, but to say that women’s sports wear is the result of their being sexually objectified is, I think, a misinterpretation.

4. heatherflea responds:
   Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 2:20 am →

   Can a female not dress in a sexually provocative manner without being a sex object?
   Does being/looking/feeling sexy= being an object?

   If female athletes were forced to wear tiny clothes I’d object. But isn’t the point that we get to *choose* how we dress? Sexy or not?

   I enjoy dressing and feeling sexual and sensual, in a manner that emphasises my fertile, sexual organs. If someone who witnesses this decides that because of my sexual appearance, I must be only an object for sex, then the fault lies with the viewer, not the viewee.

   If people (like media photgraphers) are objectifying female athletes, it’s not the athlete’s fault because, “she shouldn’t have worn that dress.”

   I never bought the whole Christian idea that if a man has impure thoughts about a woman, it’s the woman’s fault for being a stumbling block.

   Also, does the naked body have to be sexual? Can we not look at the above photos of atheletes and admire the strong athletic prowess, the rippling muscles, the toned bodies? Am I not allowed to admire the shapely buttocks? It’s beautiful. It’s hot.

   Can we not feel sorry for the men who are so uncomfortable wearing less, instead of finding fault with the women who are comfortable showing more?

   Our bodies are not bad; they are beautiful. Why must they be kept a secret? Suggesting that women should cover up more suggests that what’s uncovered is bad. Let’s all get naked.

5. carbon_based responds:
   Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 2:50 am →

   I have to ask what is wrong with the sexualization of athletes? The ancient olympic games were held in the nude, the sweat of the athletes was sold as perfume to the women about town. It’s instinctual to be attracted to fit individuals, and as one respondent said male athletes are sexualized as well. These people have great bodies, it’s their job, and its natural to want to look at them. these people work hard, if they can get some extra attention by flashing a little booty more power to them.

6. Tara@Sticky Fingers responds:
   Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 3:44 am →

   Maybe it’s the manufacturers who have a bunch of hot-blooded men on board their new product range team and they’re all sat hunched around in a team meeting deciding how skimpy their new lines should be?
   I can’t imagine it can be very comfortable playing sport in what is essentially just your undies, but then I can’t imagine that as athletes these women would want to wear anything that would detract from their performance in any way.

7. Adrenalynn responds:
   Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 4:44 am →

   In my opinion, I’d say it’s a bit of both. I’m sure the industry is definitely doing their part in this, and yes, I think on that side it sexist. Our society is sexist. From sports to toothpaste, everything has to be spun in that direction to sell. And half-naked women works. I also think that the female athletes want to focus on their own performance and that they have a few valid points about the sand and comfort when they move. But do you really think they’d want to be the only one who’s covering up? In every other arena, women are competing amongst ourselves on how we look. I’m sure this is no exception!

8. Betsy Wuebker responds:
   Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 5:20 am →

   No one mentioned the clothing company endorsements, so I will. That picture of the volleyball wedgie will probably wind up on a porn site somewhere. Great post, Vered. I do think there’s a disconnect evident in the responses from the athletes. But, I’m just an old jealous sourpuss.

9. MizFit responds:
   Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 5:49 am →

   not surprisingly Ive thought about this a lot and even asked a few athletes Ive been fortunate enough to meet in person.

   I cant argue with them because Im not them…ME? ID NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY FOR FEAR OF SHOWING STUFF I DIDNT WANNA SHOW. the women I talked with? they claimed to not mind, be thrilled with how they looked, said less draping of cloth allowed them to play better.

   who can say, huh?

10. Evelyn Lim responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 7:30 am →

    I think that these athletes are very willing to be wearing almost next to nothing. Sure it may be able to improve their performance but by how much? I think it is more about the marketing perspective!! Think sponsorships! Think millions in dollars!!

11. Writer Dad responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 7:46 am →

    I agree with Adrenalynne. It’s a bit of both. My wife, a modest woman, prefers attire that to me seems a bit skimpy when she’s playing tennis or running. It’s what she feels most comfortable in.

12. Tabitha (From Single to Married) responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 8:28 am →

    As someone who sometimes watches these sports I have to say that the outfits have never really bothered me and I typically dress very modestly myself. I do think about the outfits (specifically the ones worn by runners) but only in the sense that I wonder if the atheletes are uncomfortable having all their bits and parts showing while running. You’d have to be very comfortable with your body to be able to do that.

    Looking at your pictures, however, I do wonder if the female atheletes are exploited based on some of the positions which are rather revealing.

13. eli skipp responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 9:14 am →

    I have to agree with most of the other commenters that the uniforms of female olympians aren’t sexist. I consider myself a feminist and it still bothers me when people grope for situations where they can get angry that women are being exploited — nitpicking isn’t going to fix anything. If the women were uncomfortable, they could have chosen other outfits, a sentiment which was repeated by every athlete interviewed. And while I’m sure more men watch volleyball because of the outfits, what ought that to matter? Should women be forced to wear less “skimpy” oufits merely because they increase ratings? That seems like forcing conservativism. I’d also like to echo heatherflea: just because we look and feel sexy does that automatically equal sexism?

    I think sexism and exploitation comes when there’s disrespect for women primarily. They’ve been given equal if not more choices as far as their clothing, and they pick what suits them best, and they’re respected for that too. Not to mention their incredible skills.

14. Noble Savage responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 am →

    But isn’t the point that we get to *choose* how we dress? Sexy or not?

    The fact that there is a pre-defined idea of what is considered sexy (with the inference being that skimpy=sexy and covered up=not sexy) is more of a problem, in my opinion, than whether we can choose to “dress sexy” or not.

15. Jill responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 9:49 am →

    Of course they’re willing participants. It’s disgusting and sad.

16. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 am →

    @ Amanda: One of the athletes said that she did feel uncomfortable at first. I just wonder of they refuse to acknowledge a problem that, if they were honest, does exist.

    @ Squawkfox: I agree. I can’t see how a tiny bikini can be comfortable.

    @ Bob: It’s true that men in the US are being ridiculed if they wear Speedos. It’s also true that the media sexualizes women, athletes or otherwise.

    @ heatherflea: But do they really choose? If some of them were wearing tiny bikinis while others were more covered, I would agree it’s a choice. But when all of them are dressed like this, it seems like there’s pressure to look a certain way. One of the athletes I interviewed said that at first she felt uncomfortable, but got used to it. Why did she wear something she was uncomfortable with? Theoretically she could have worn something that provided more coverage.

    @ carbon_based: “I have to ask what is wrong with the sexualization of athletes?” What I’m concerned about is that only female athletes are sexualized.

    @ Tara: “I can’t imagine it can be very comfortable playing sport in what is essentially just your undies, but then I can’t imagine that as athletes these women would want to wear anything that would detract from their performance in any way.” Perhaps. Women in general are willing to wear stuff that detracts from their performance such as narrow skirts and high heels. Maybe it’s different for athletes.

    @ Adrenalynn: “But do you really think they’d want to be the only one who’s covering up? In every other arena, women are competing amongst ourselves on how we look. I’m sure this is no exception!” Sadly, I agree. Which brings me back to my earlier point that even if they get to choose their outfit, it’s not a real choice.

    @ Betsy Wuebker: “I do think there’s a disconnect evident in the responses from the athletes. But, I’m just an old jealous sourpuss.” Ditto!

    @ MizFit: I agree – it’s hard to say. I tend to agree with Betsy that when the athletes say it’s just comfort they’re basically deluding themselves. Especially since one of them admitted that she was uncomfortable at first.

    @ Evelyn Lim: I agree. They are willing participants in the sexualization of female athletes, and they do it because they are being paid to do it.

    @ Writer Dad: I play tennis too. I refuse to wear those ridiculous tiny skirts. I wear pants. But whatever your wife wears, I can’t imagine it’s as bas ad what we’ve seen here.

    @ Tabitha: I think they ARE being exploited. Or maybe they are exploiting the system to make money from being sexualized. Either way, they hurt other women by perpetuating the message that women are always sexual objects, even when performance – not looks – should matter most.

    @ eli skipp: I don’t think I groped for anything nor do I think I’m nitpicking. These photos speak for themselves and are infuriating. Just like the display of magazines at the airport, how do I explain this to my daughters?? What message are they getting about their place in society when they see these images?

    “If the women were uncomfortable, they could have chosen other outfits, a sentiment which was repeated by every athlete interviewed.” One of the women stated that she WAS uncomfortable at first, yet chose to wear a skimpy outfit until she got used to it.

    “And they’re respected for that too” – I don’t see much respect in the photos taken from the rear. And there are plenty of those.

    @ Noble Savage and @ Jill: I agree.

17. Natural responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 10:07 am →

    Maybe the showing of the female body is more taboo in the US. I say whatever you are wearing, just be sure it’s appropriate for whatever you are doing. It’s unfair IF women HAVE to wear skimpy outfits, but I have no problem with a woman wearing a bathing suit that shows SOME skin as long as she’s on the beach on in a pool. Women were probably taught to cover up and thus found shame in their body. I think there can be modesty in swim wear…unfortunately in this sex crazed world, people are only thinking one thing. I would love to wear a two piece bathing suit, on the beach. The human body is beautiful without it being just a sex object. It’s unfair when men wear more modest outfits than women wear or are expect to wear.

18. Amy responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 10:15 am →

    i know that my opinion probably will not have any effect in the whole discussion, and i just dont fell like naming reason after reason…. but honeslty, as an athelete, i DONT THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE. AT ALL

19. Jannie responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 10:33 am →

    What a great idea for a post, Vered!

    I do tend to side more with the women on the comfort and performance side of things than on the side of sexualization. Heck, even in Jazzercise less feels so much better for ease of movement. And I think guys are probably more comfortable too in regular shorts, with whatever they need to wear under to keep their delicates restrained and protected. A Speedo sexy? Not to Jannie, and not to most women either, from what I’ve heard.

20. Davina responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 10:34 am →

    Hi Vered. I’m not much into sports so I haven’t noticed this before, but I think a lot of this perspective is coming from the photographer’s lens. I imagine that if I was sitting in the stands watching an event, the outfit through my own eyes wouldn’t appear as “exploitive”. The human body, both male and female, especially one that is in shape is pretty nifty and attractive, but I agree that I’m not particularly interested in seeing a sporty wedgie.

21. kat responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 am →

    The olympic games in Greek times were played in the nude right? Relevant? Who knows.

    I think the scenario, conscious or subconsciously, goes like this:

    Do I choose Outfit A or Outfit B?

    Where,
    Outfit A – excellent for performance, not sexy
    Outfit B – excellent for performance, sexy

    Game1:
    Wear Outfit A – perform well, get attention

    Game2:
    Wear Outfit B – perform well, get even more attention

    I’m sure there are lots of men that would wear less if created positive results for their career. As far as the bad angle – I think there are many people who would take a bad angle over no angle – example, the news reporter surrounded by people trying to get their face on tv.

22. Charlie responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 am →

    Sexism, though is “prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination based on sex.” So what about the skimpy outfits would be sexist?

    Second, there’s intentional and unintentional sexism. You could have occurent beliefs about women that are sexist – “I want hire women because they’re less productive or less skilled” – or you could have beliefs that imply the direct beliefs that you’re not aware of – for instance, you could systematically evaluate womens’ productivity lower than mens’, even though the do the same quantitative amount of work.

    Let’s ask another question, which I think I can answer more clearly: “Does the practice of wearing skimpy outfits harm women?” If we expand “harm” to include non-physical harms, I think the answer is clear: yes, it does.

    What our daughters learn is that they’re evaluated based on how attractive they are rather than how they perform. The women are perhaps more comfortable in their skimpy bikinis because the bikinis give them power and allure – people in power (historically, men) pay more attention to them, and that attention gives them confidence. Without that attention, they lose confidence. Without the confidence, they play differently.

    Of course, they may not be aware of why they’re more comfortable in some clothes rather than others. And I’m prone to wear different clothes for different occasions because I feel more (socially) comfortable and thus have more confidence. But there’s a double-consciousness that happens when we play games to seek the approval of others by showing them what they want to see – in this case, women are showing men what they want to see. Women compare their attractiveness to other females because attractiveness is power.

    I’m not saying that if we all wore different clothes that how we’re evaluated would change. There are other cultural shifts that would have to be made, as well. But I do think it’d go along way if we all didn’t (innocently) accept the fact that it’s okay to evaluate women based on how attractive they are.

    My $.02 that turned into a dollar.

23. zoe responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 am →

    Of course we objectify the hot bodies of the uber-fit women. Who would watch these sports if not for the skimpy attire showing off well defined abs and tight buns? We don’t live in a society where female athletes and womens sports are valued, but if you’re a guy who can put a ball through a hoop, you’re a god. It’s how we raise our children, unfortunately. Boy’s/men’s athletics programs are more valued than the girls/womens.
    Besides, men don’t want to see women as actual athletic beings, then we’d would be the competition rather than the conquests.

    Besides, some of us are just pigs. Do you really think I’m a roller derby fan because those chicks can really skate? Derby wouldn’t be nearly so well attended if it weren’t for the short skirts and the fishnet stockings they wear.

24. RC Rambles... responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 12:42 pm →

    I’ll admit that I never really thought about this before. I always figured athletes were the driving force behind the outfits they chose.

    Taking a look at the pictures you chosen, I would say it is a little bit of everything – a little bit about their comfort, and a little bit about exploiting themselves. I think they’ve chosen that path – to use what they have (skill, talent & great bodies).

    How I feel about their outfits? I guess I really don’t have a huge opinion one way or another on this one.

    As for the LFL – good luck being taken seriously as athletes.

25. Bamboo Forest responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 1:14 pm →

    Since the women can choose what they want to wear, I don’t think its sexism.

    Theoretically maybe guys would perform better if they wore speedos to play volleyball in – but they don’t want to. And I don’t blame them.

    Why girls want to wear bikinis, I don’t know. But, I think its only fair to realize that a guy playing volleyball in a speedo is going to look a little funny to the average person. A girl wearing a bikini won’t. A girl wearing what the guys wear: also won’t.

26. Karl Staib - Work Happy Now responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 2:09 pm →

    I believe that there would be less people watching women’s volleyball if they didn’t wear those outfits. Young men are the largest portion of sports watchers. I fall into that category being 32, although I feel middle aged.

    My point is I stayed on the women’s volleyball a little longer than other women’s sports because they are attractive and athletic. I would not watch beautiful women who were bad athletes play volleyball. I think that’s the difference (for me). I still appreciated their athleticism.

    We (men) are definitely drawn by sexiness. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. I don’t go to strip clubs because I don’t believe it promotes good values. With that being said I will watch a Victoria Secret show if it’s on TV. Is one right or wrong? I think that is all up to the individual. As long as they are aware of their choices then it’s up to them to make the choice that fits their needs.

27. Bamboo Forest responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pm →

    Karl Staib makes an excellent point. The women volleyball players are tremendous athletes. If they weren’t, no one would watch.

28. Dee Langdon - BloggerNewbie responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 2:32 pm →

    I think the women or all the athletes for that matter are plenty old enough to dress themselves. There is nothing wrong with their outfits it that is what they want to wear. I do find it hard to believe they are comfortable. I wasn’t aware of the sand issue they speak of. I’d rather try to get the sand out then try to keep the butt in..

29. Maya responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm →

    I never know what to think about questions such as these – it is way too complicated with too many variables involved – the clothes, the intention, the observer, the photographers and the market (money-making).
    I only hope none of the athletes here are choosing their clothes for the wrong reasons – and as long as they are doing that, I would believe them.
    Being a woman is not easy – I took a lot of flak when I lived in India – just because I was not scared to speak my mind. The guys spoke a lot of trash about me ….but does that mean I should stay shut? I did not think so at all ….but a bunch of other people did – they said I caused it all for myself. But I continued to do what I believed in ….

30. Beth Partin responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm →

    Yes, I think they’re refusing to acknowledge it, especially the woman who said it used to bother her. I don’t believe those outfits are more comfortable–at least, not the bottoms.

    This year while watching the Olympics, I was bothered quite a bit by the women’s outfits for track and volleyball. I was also bothered by the Muslim woman who ran track in much heavier clothing. A happy medium, please!

31. Michelle @ What Does Your Body Good? responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 2:45 pm →

    I suppose it’s a good thing that these women athletes don’t seem to feel they ‘have’ to wear these clothes. I expected answers to be more in line with “That’s what everyone wears so I have to” not “These clothes are more comfortable.” And I can understand their point–I do yoga and my most comfortable clothes are somewhat tight and, well, sexy! Compared to guys who are too self conscious to wear tight clothing but as a result have baggy sweaty cotton t-shirts falling over their heads during class.

32. Christina Narciso responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 3:12 pm →

    If you ask guys why they watch women’s sports… I think you’ll get the same answer. I do prefer lighter clothing though. And sports like volleyball, require well… less clothing. And I HATE TAN LINES. But I think women know what they are doing when they choose to wear “skimpy” clothing. I think they are willing participants.

33. apricot tea. responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 3:29 pm →

    I don’t think it’s sexist or exploitative at all! Like the athletes themselves have said, they wear skimpy clothes for comfort, not necessarily for shock value. I would have to agree, too, that if I were playing beach volleyball, there’s no way that I would be covered up. It just doesn’t seem practical. Your game could easily be inhibited by pulling & tugging at excess clothing, not to mention sweating & such.

    & who’s to say that men DON’T want to dress a little skimpier? After all, I’m sure they’re dying of heat stroke half the time, too. But it’s socially acceptable for a female to dress scantily clad than a man. Guys don’t feel masculine in booty shorts, you know. ;] I actually feel sorry for them & I don’t think it’s fair that it’s socially acceptable for a woman, but not for a man. (I completely agree with Bob, 100%.) I wonder how much it would effect a man (or a woman’s) performance if he/she did play nude…? It would probably make a world of difference!

34. Noble Savage responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm →

    But I think women know what they are doing when they choose to wear “skimpy” clothing. I think they are willing participants.

    Whoa whoa whoa. That sounds dangerously close to the thinking that says women who dress sexy deserve what they get (like rape).

    Just because a third party find someone’s attire sexy does not mean that the person wearing it chose it specifically for that purpose. Media messages and cultural influence may have shaped their ‘decision’ to wear it, absolutely, but to say that because the clothing they’re wearing is generally considered sexy that they somehow ‘asked for’ the attention (including negative or sexual attention) and are therefore complicit in their objectification is simplifying the matter entirely too much, not to mention shifting the blame entirely onto women instead of the historically patriarchal beauty standard that says tight, revealing, miminal clothing is ‘sexy’ and everything else is not.

35. Marelisa responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm →

    I think that women athletes are models of female strength. You do see a lot of their bodies in the outfits that they wear, but what you see is not silicon breasts or sexual poses, but muscle, endurance, discipline, focus, and flexibility. As long as they get to chose what they wear, I think their outfits are fine. I think I read somewhere that in the original Olympic games the competitors (yes, men) were nude Not that I’m advocating naked beach volleyball or anything of the sort, but strong bodies engaged in competitive sports, whether male or female, are inspiring to watch.

36. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 4:00 pm →

    @ Natural: I agree that the human body is beautiful. These athletes are absolutely gorgeous. But I don’t want any woman, ever, to feel pressured into showing her body off.

    @ Amy: I respect your opinion, and I would have respected it even more if you named your reasons. Reading through the comments, it seems to me that although many agree with me, many others disagree. While I feel all warm and fuzzy inside when people agree with me, I am very interested in reading dissenting opinions. This is the entire point of having a discussion.

    @ Jannie: Agree on the Speedo.

    @ Davina: “I’m not particularly interested in seeing a sporty wedgie.” Me too.

    @ kat: “I’m sure there are lots of men that would wear less if created positive results for their career.” You’re making an interesting observation. I think many men would. I also think male nudity doesn’t have the same impact on women as female nudity has on men. So men don’t have the incentive – or the temptation – that women have to use their looks.

    @ Charlie: “What our daughters learn is that they’re evaluated based on how attractive they are rather than how they perform.” Exactly. I also completely agree that “Women compare their attractiveness to other females because attractiveness is power.” I wish it wasn’t so, but female attractiveness does translate to power. It’s just the wrong kind of power. And women lose it when they get older, but when they lose it they’re actually still quite young and still have many years to live – so that’s another big issue with relying on this type of power.

    “But I do think it’d go a long way if we all didn’t (innocently) accept the fact that it’s okay to evaluate women based on how attractive they are.” Agreed again, although sometimes I worry that it will take many more years for this to happen. Traditionally, the only power women had was their looks. Now, they can have the “male” type power (money, assets, political power). But it might take humans many generations to adjust to this relatively new situation.

    @ zoe: “Boy’s/men’s athletics programs are more valued than the girls/womens.” Sadly this is true, and it’s even more sad that the only way for women to attract more attention is to undress.

    And, you’re such a pig.

    @ RC Rambles: “I think they’ve chosen that path – to use what they have (skill, talent & great bodies).” – true, but I think “great bodies” should come first in that sentence, before “skill” and “talent”.

    @ Bamboo Forest: “Since the women can choose what they want to wear, I don’t think its sexism.” My main question: is this a real choice or is there pressure? One of the women said she felt uncomfortable at first, yet she chose to wear a skimpy outfit, and eventually got used to it. If this were a real choice, she would have chosen something that gave her more coverage. I do agree that they are great athletes. They are incredibly strong and fit and have great stamina.

    @ Karl Staib: “I think that is all up to the individual. As long as they are aware of their choices then it’s up to them to make the choice that fits their needs.” But the choices of these individuals affect us as a society. And, again, is it a real choice?

    @ Dee Langdon: “I’d rather try to get the sand out then try to keep the butt in..” Ha. To judge by the photos, they’re not really trying to keep it in.

    @ Maya: There’s a difference between an outspoken woman who’s not afraid to speak her mind and a woman who shows her body off to attract males. By the way, I’m so glad you’re in the U.S. now.

    @ Beth Partin: “A happy medium, please!” – I agree.

    @ Michelle: One of the athletes did say that she felt uncomfortable at first. The fact that she still wore a bikini shows that they ARE pressured to dress that way.

    @ Christina Narciso: “But I think women know what they are doing when they choose to wear “skimpy” clothing. I think they are willing participants.” I agree.

    @ apricot tea: Maybe I should interview male athletes and ask them about it. Hmm…

    @ Noble Savage: Christina was repeating Computer Addict’s words. He said that the women are “willing participants in an enterprise predicated on making money by depicting women as sexual objects… personal gains, be it money, power or fame, often trump one’s self-identification with class, gender, ethnicity or race.”

    This is not the same as “they brought the rape/ sexual advances on themselves.” These women are “willing participants” in the sense that they agree to perpetuate the “women are sexual objects” notion for their own personal gain.

    I do agree that their “choice” to present themselves as sexual objects is not fully their choice and is heavily influenced by societal perceptions and expectations.

    @ Marelisa: “As long as they get to chose what they wear, I think their outfits are fine.” Provided this is a true choice. I’m not convinced it is.

37. Barbara Swafford - Blogging Without A Blog responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 4:13 pm →

    Hi Vered – Great photos and questions. If I was younger, in as great shape as those gals are, and could play volleyball as good as they do, I’d say, “bring it on”. They’ve worked hard to be where they’re at, and for that I admire them. They’re real beauties who appear to have an extremely high body image (and they’re not anorexic looking).

    This reminds me of when a friend of mine accidentally (or so she said) visited a nudist beach (in your area Vered). She came to work on the following Monday and gave me a “eye witness” report of what the men looked like when they were playing volleyball in the nude………Maybe putting on a Speedo would have been a better choice.

38. Hilarious Online Gender Testing Results responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 4:30 pm →

    [...] We think MomGrind.com is written by a woman (87%). Correct. This is the first one it got right, but I’m guessing that the word “Mom” in the domain name and the fact that Vered is a Mommy Blogger was a big giveaway. And I don’t know any man who would write Female Athletes Say Skimpy Outfits Are Not Sexist. [...]

39. Friar responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 5:10 pm →

    If women were REQUIRED to wear skimpy bikinis instead of baggy shorts and tank tops, then yes, that would be sexist.

    But if they CHOOSE to wear skimpy bikinis….well, then who really owns the problem?

    Oooh, look at body-buildling. They hardly wear anything compared to hockey players. …So THAT must be a sexist sport too!

40. Terry Free responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 5:13 pm →

    Even after listening to the women who give you feedback in favor of wearing whatever they want you seem intent or doubting whether they are aware they are being exploited. It strikes me as something you are more uncomfortable with than the athletes themselves. Your photos appear selective to endorse your point , I mean come on, do you really think any man is planning to play tennis in skimpy wear? …. Looking at that sport more closely it has to be said that it is the women’s fashion statements that have changed over the years not the male garb. Maybe the women could talk to their sponsors if they fee exploited. i would imagine their paypacket would go down though. But you’ve already had an across the board answer and they seem happy with what they have. Do you still have an agenda?

41. Mia responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 5:49 pm →

    As always, I’m glad you wrote on this. I also have been thinking the same thing lately. Personally, I think it is a “requirement” that they’re “hot” and wear skimpy clothing. I often wonder why I don’t see the men wearing similar things. I wonder if they even realize they’re being exploited.

42. Carojay responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 6:36 pm →

    As to whether the female athletes have a choice, I did read somewhere that the Olympics committee dictated the size of the female athletes’ bikinis.

    About the Speedo comments, I would enjoy looking at fit men wearing Speedos. It’s the out of shape guys who give them a bad name.

    And I’ve said this before on another post, but it has been shown that women are just as aroused by male nudity as men are when looking at female nudity. It’s just not as accepted by society for women to admit they have sexual urges as it is for men. Another example of sexism.

43. Carla responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 6:46 pm →

    I watched the Olympics and didnt even notice the outfits the female athletics were wearing until I read all the hoopla about it in the media. I guess its because I cant imagine playing beach volleyball covered up (uncomfortable to me). I dress pretty modestly, though I may show some leg every now and then, but when working out, I do show a bit more skin for comfort sake.

44. kathy responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 7:07 pm →

    Vered
    I have to admit that I had the same thoughts about the dichotomy between the clothing coverage of male and female beach volleyball players while watching the Olympics. Perhaps it’s not sexist at all, but just another example of how different men and women really are. Guys just seem to be at ease in most any type of clothing – it just doesn’t seem to bother them. I can see the women’s point about tan lines. They are out in the sun playing and practicing endless hours. And it is beach volleyball, so why not beach clothing? I do take exception to photographers who exploit the opportunities presented them. I’d be surprised if any of the backside pictures of women volleyball players were taken by women photographers.

45. MommyNamedApril responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 7:49 pm →

    i don’t know. i feel like if it were me, and i worked hard and looked good – i’d probably wear the bikini too. especially if it’s more comfortable.

46. Jess Sanders responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 9:16 pm →

    Hmmm, this is a toughie.

    My first reaction is to agree with heatherflea – let’s all get naked! Why should we be ashamed of our bodies? Why on EARTH should these well toned, healthy women be ashamed of theirs? But, SOMETHING is wrong with this picture – what?

    The picture is what’s wrong. It’s not the bikini to keep the sand out that’s offensive, or the athelete wearing it, but society’s reaction to the situation. The picture of the volleyball player from behind. The overt expectation that because a woman is wearing revealing clothes that she wants to have sex.

    Do not blame the athelete for their choice of clothing. Let women wear bikinis to keep the sand out, uncriticized. And to Bob’s point above, let the men wear the same if that’s what makes them play better and they’re comfortable with it. And point the intoleration to the objectification in the media. If sex doesn’t sell, it will stop being sold.

47. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 9:33 pm →

    @ Barbara: I agree that these women look healthy. They don’t look underweight. They look awesome.

    @ Friar: As I said before, I’m not sure it’s a real choice. I think there’s pressure to wear these outfits. Especially since Heather Bravo said the outfits did make her uncomfortable at first, until she got used to them.

    @ Terry Free: Of course I have an agenda. This is my personal blog. I am free to push any agenda I want. People are free to read or not.

    The women told me they’re free to choose, but I don’t buy it. I don’t think it’s a free choice. I think there’s pressure to wear these outfits. Especially since Heather Bravo said the outfits did make her uncomfortable at first, until she got used to them.

    “Maybe the women could talk to their sponsors if they fee exploited. i would imagine their paypacket would go down though.” Thank you. You just proved my point.

    @ Mia: “Personally, I think it is a “requirement” that they’re “hot” and wear skimpy clothing.” I agree. I think they can’t allow themselves to realize they’re being exploited. If I were them, I would lie to myself too.

    @ Carojay: It’s good to “see” you here again. While a young fit man would be very attractive to me, I still think there’s a certain type of very raw, primal attraction to a person’s body that men experience more than women do. I think of women as responding to the person as a whole, not to his body parts. But who knows. It’s very possible that I’ve been conditioned by society to feel this way.

    @ Carla: I get that less fabric is more comfortable, I’m just not sure that the butt hanging out is all that comfortable, or that a covered rear (as in boyshorts) would be less comfortable than an exposed one.

    @ kathy: “I do take exception to photographers who exploit the opportunities presented them.” I agree. One solution would be to wear bottoms that cover the entire rear end.

    @ MommyNamedApril: I’ll repeat what I told Carla: I get that less fabric is more comfortable. I’m just not sure that the butt hanging out is all that comfortable, or that a covered rear (as in boyshorts) would be less comfortable than an exposed one.

    @ Jess Sanders: Interesting points. But since we live in a society that sees nudity as an expression of sexuality, for both sexes, I would prefer to see female and male athletes in an outfit that covers their rear end.

48. Computer Addict responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 9:44 pm →

    How flattering to be quoted ! The athletes have a choice – they can compete in these outfits, compete in other outfits, or not compete at all. If they choose to compete in these outfits – they can’t complain (and I note that they don’t, for the most part), and we shouldn’t complain on their behalf, either.

49. Friar responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 10:50 pm →

    Maybe we can have them play in Burkhas!

50. Beth responds:
    Posted: December 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pm →

    I find these comments very interesting. Back during the Olympics I covered this issue on my own site (which is a social network for women athletes). What precipitated my post was the uneven coverage of the Olympic athletes in the magazine Direct Access, the glossy program guide for Direct TV. In that publication there was not one single piece of serious coverage on the female athletes, but several “eye candy” pieces pointing out the “extraordinary assets” of the women competitors (along with accompanying photographs not dissimilar to those attached to this post.) As a female athlete myself, I found this disheartening to say the least. I don’t have a problem with athletes wearing what is functional, feels and looks good. And I agree that women’s bodies ARE beautiful, hell the human form is beautiful, especially when it is honed to near perfection. I do have a problem when women’s accomplishments are reduced to the way they look while their athleticism and successes in their chosen fields are ignored. It’s when human being are reduced to objects that this issue becomes problematic.

51. Ian Peatey responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 2:00 am →

    Hi Vered. Another great post! I see two separate things here.

    First .. do men and women need different clothing for the same sport? Well I guess the answer is yes, at least because we are built differently in some obvious ways. Also (and now my tongue is in my cheek!) men are usually hairier than women so need to cover up more for the aerodynamics effect. Or … they could just remove their body hair. Maybe I’m being naive (not for the first time) but I find it hard to believe that – at the top of each sport – sportswear designers wouldn’t put performance as the number one criteria. The ‘look’ surely comes second place.

    Second… Media coverage and photos. Yes. Shocking! It’s cheap and demeaning to actively look for some of these angles (I assume pictures of female athletes butts are not by pure hazard). Not sure who it demeans most, though. The athlete, the photographer or those who get some voyeuristic thrill out of the pictures.

    Ian

52. J.D. Meier responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 2:47 am →

    I bet some pics of Sumo wrestlers would throw off the argument, huh?

53. Suzie responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 8:05 am →

    My Dad and husband watch women’s volley ball with gusto each summer Olympics. I’m sure its not for the sporty appeal.

54. Cath Lawson responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 10:39 am →

    Hi Vered – It’s difficult to know. When I first looked at the pictures, I thought maybe they are wearing skimpy outfits to encourage folk to watch their sports.

    But I used to go to the gym a lot and I must admit, I felt more comfortable in stretchy small shorts and bra top than I did wearing really baggy stuff.

    It’s hard to say whether they’re being exploited or not. I’m certain many men watch these sports because of the outfits. But are the woman be exploited, if they truly don’t feel they’re being exploited? I’m not sure.

55. veena responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 11:17 am →

    I think it’s personal choice. just because someone else is judging them by their hotness, doesn’t mean they should stop wearing skimpy clothes… it really is upto them…is it sexism that hey wear the skimpy clothses… No.. but it is when they are being judged by that

56. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 12:38 pm →

    @ Computer Addict: “The athletes have a choice” – do they? Really? Is there no pressure at all to wear those bikini bottoms?

    @ Friar: Can’t there ever be a middle ground when it comes to women? Must we either parade our bodies in front of men or cover our bodies entirely? Either extreme is a way of controlling women.

    @ Beth: “I do have a problem when women’s accomplishments are reduced to the way they look while their athleticism and successes in their chosen fields are ignored. It’s when human being are reduced to objects that this issue becomes problematic.” Exactly.

    @ Ian Peatey: “do men and women need different clothing for the same sport? Well I guess the answer is yes, at least because we are built differently in some obvious ways.” I’m not sure I’m buying this argument. Women wear the same outfits as men when they play soccer and basketball.

    I completely agree that the main fault here lies with the media.

    @ J.D. Meier: Sumo wrestling isn’t part of the western culture/ western media so I don’t think it’s very relevant here.

    @ Suzie:

    @ Cath Lawson: I don’t think they’re reaching out for these outfits thinking “I’m gonna lure so many men into watching!” I think it’s more on a subconscious level and more along the lines of “I have to wear this, because all the other women will wear this, and I have to look as attractive as they do or my career is over.” One of the dissenting commenters here tried to refute my arguments, then proceeded to say that if the women were more covered, they would likely make less money. This is exactly what bothers me: that they need to parade their bodies around in order to make money, instead of making money because they are great athletes (which they obviously are).

    @ veena: This is one of the main questions that this discussion has raised. Even if they ARE wearing the skimpy clothes only for comfort (which I’m not fully convinced of but let’s assume this is the case), should they respond to the outrageous media coverage by covering themselves a bit more? No, I’m not recommending burqas. But a covered rear end perhaps?

57. Carla responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 12:52 pm →

    This discussion is very interesting. I know in basketball, men used to wear SHORT shorts – now they are pretty long. Just look up Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Sure they were not as short as the women posted above, but still…

58. Sire responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 3:41 pm →

    How can you argue when the women themselves don’t think it’s sexist or have they been conditioned to think that way. Anyway, men can’t wear tight tight shorts as it would make it too obvious that they have stuffed a sock down there.

59. UrbanVox responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 4:02 pm →

    hotness…
    u gotta admit… those outfits are hot!

60. Jelveh responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 5:33 pm →

    hot they may be, but sick is what they are in relaity…both the girls and the outfits…I feel that generations of women and young girls have now been raised on the diet of “looking like this is cool and right”, by a media that is bent on pushing women back in to the cage they were in prior to the women’s movement, and they are brilliant since they have done it in such a way that the women think they have chosen to let their body parts hang out in front of salivating men….I find the whole thing offensive, I played soccor in high school, bank in 1980 I was the only girl on my team and had to fight to get there, and I wore the same outfit as the rest of the players…it is sexism for sure, it is sexist without a question…here in England, I have noticed, female tv anchors actually look like real women and not made up and put in the position due to their looks, it was so refreshing to see this when we moved here from the states, dont get me wrong, there are many young women just hanging out in front of bars waiting to get in in sad little outfits, even in cold weather, but at least the tv news still has real women working it here…question is what can be done to save these young women…from a sexist media filled world?

61. Carla responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 5:53 pm →

    I would be careful who we consider “real” women. We come in all shapes, sizes, makeup or not, showing skin or more conservative. Regardless, we are all real and are deserving the same respect regardless how others thing we should look.

62. elle responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 6:51 pm →

    I have to say, that by definition, if it doesn’t apply to the male gender as well, it is sexist. Sorry. Yes, I cringe when I notice the women volleyball players wearing barely nothing and the men all covered up. Where’s my eye candy? LOL. But seriously. You have to wonder why this discrepancy exists and it goes back to the male gaze I think. We women have internalized the values of the oppressor so to speak and these outfits are the result.

63. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 9:05 pm →

    @ Carla: Interesting. I haven’t thought about it. Agree with your comment on “real women.”

    @ Sire: Maybe they’re conditioned. Maybe they’re having a hard time admitting they’re being used as sexual objects. Maybe I’m totally wrong and it’s all very innocent. Who knows.

    @ UrbanVox: It’s not the outfits. It’s the athletes. Yes, they are absolutely gorgeous. But should that be our main focus?

    @ Jelveh: “they are brilliant since they have done it in such a way that the women think they have chosen to let their body parts hang out in front of salivating men” – this is pretty much what bothers me. Is this a real choice to wear something comfortable, or are these women being used as sexual objects? And if this truly is a completely innocent choice to wear comfortable attire, but it is causing them to be perceived as sexual objects, should they respond by covering themselves more, like men do, or should they ignore the salivating media and keep playing with these outfits?

    @ elle: “I cringe when I notice the women volleyball players wearing barely nothing and the men all covered up.” Me too.

64. Patricia responds:
    Posted: December 3rd, 2008 at 9:59 pm →

    I think I am in the stuffy old person mode for the idea of how the folks are photographed…I sure did admire the 40 year old swimmer and her muscled body in Time Magazine at Olympics time….very similar to the male athletes picture. I know my kiddos like to be comfortable when they exercise and being half naked does not appeal to them at all…comfort does.

    Healthy bodies are beautiful.
    My Mother in law would not go to the ballet because of the pants the men wore…or watch it on TV.

    I do think many folks get “turned on” by the skimpy no matter what the athletes say.

    Then again, I saw too much and was disgusted by the men swimming at my local pool this week. They mostly need new swim suits – often….they are too proud of their holey old timers!
    

65. Sire responds:
    Posted: December 4th, 2008 at 12:33 am →

    Come to think of it, I remember a few occasions when some male tennis players swapped shirts whilst on the court and the women simply went wild. At least as men can perv quietly

66. Dr. J responds:
    Posted: December 5th, 2008 at 8:03 am →

    Fit athletes look great, clothes or not! I think the male/female clothes thing has been around since Adam and Eve. There are cultural variations, but the theme of sexuality is consistent, whether to show it or to hide it.

67. Dot responds:
    Posted: December 5th, 2008 at 10:19 am →

    OH give me a break, commenters! Having lived through this debate 30 years ago, when it went on endlessly, I have to say OH GAWD, I’m so tired of this! The men, as a rule, always believe there is no sexism or exploitation happening in whatever situation that is described. Even after you break it down and demonstrate it to them, they’re still doubtful and feel that you’re exaggerating. And the women, as a rule, are so desperate to be thought of as sexy that they also don’t (want to) see the problem.

    Yes, there are people who are exceptions. But they are exceptions.

    We spent YEARS on this debate 30 years ago, and for the little progress that we made, we also got a lot of male backlash (meaning that someone such as myself who rants on this subject would get attacked as a dried up old prune, a lesbian or a rage-a-holic) as well as female pandering to the male backlash. Obviously, the progress we made hasn’t been passed on very well to the current generation.

    Men are the main people who watch sports and thus become the audience for sports advertising, making money for sports broadcasting. To get men to watch sports involving women, which many of them consider boring, unchallenging and not worthwhile, broadcasters have to add something. Most add sex. For the same reason, Sports Illustrated contains very little coverage of (boring) women. But they appear in the swimsuit issue. Is wearing a swimsuit a sport? C’mon guys, get real.

    “… I believe that the international league (FIBV) has a 4? maximum on the hip width of the bottom…” Why on earth do you think they have that requirement? Is there a requirement for the men that their shorts be no longer than 4 inches? Would it be better if the American male’s obsession with sex also affect the American female?

    To me the real question is, why are American men (or is it more than American) so sex-obsessed? Is it something in the food? In the water? Is it something we can correct? I’m perfectly serious here. I’ve observed this over many years and have found it to be very troubling, but men seem so proud of it. It worries me that we leave the safety and future of our country in the hands of people who think about sex every ten seconds, or whatever the number is. Men are not only obsessed with sex, they actually want more than they can have naturally — hence the black market sales of male enhancement drugs to normal men.

68. Chris responds:
    Posted: December 5th, 2008 at 11:35 am →

    Men control Sports Media and Events, hence the outfit. No need to debate. We’re just dogs and we can’t help it.

69. Maya responds:
    Posted: December 5th, 2008 at 11:38 am →

    Kudos to you Chris! Very well said.
    Thank you.

70. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 5th, 2008 at 3:30 pm →

    @ Patricia: I’m amused by the thought of your mother in law refusing to watch ballet because of the men’s costumes.

    @ Sire: So nudity IS perceived as sexual in our culture.

    @ Dr. J: I agree that fit athletes look great.

    @ Dot: “Obviously, the progress we made hasn’t been passed on very well to the current generation.” I agree. It’s sad, and it scares me.

    “people who think about sex every ten seconds, or whatever the number is.” – I think sex is always on men’s minds. I also think it’s the way they are programmed and probably very useful for the survival of the human race. So in a way it’s not their fault. What scares me is that part of their programming seems to be being able to view a woman as nothing more than a sexual object.

    @ Chris: “Men control Sports Media and Events, hence the outfit. No need to debate. We’re just dogs and we can’t help it.” I’ll join Maya’s “thank you”. I’m also adding this to the post as “comment of the day.”

71. Carojay responds:
    Posted: December 5th, 2008 at 6:05 pm →

    Dot, you are brilliant!! Kudos to you for expressing your (and in good measure mine) thoughts so eloquently.

    Why are Chris’s words applauded? Especially by women!! It’s just the same old thing… men using the “I can’t help it. I’m just hard wired this way” excuse to get away with bad, sexist behavior. Of course you can help it. It’s called character!! Maybe you should think about developing one of those!

72. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 5th, 2008 at 9:41 pm →

    @ Carojay: Dot IS brilliant.

    I applauded Chris because he is honest. I do believe that to a certain extent, men really are hardwired this way. It doesn’t mean they can’t control their impulses or learn to treat us as equals. But they have to fight primal instincts that are extremely strong. I know you completely disagree with me on this and that’s OK. I’m glad you’re voicing your opinions on my blog. We are both feminists, but our approaches are very different. I enjoy reading and learning more about yours.

73. Maya responds:
    Posted: December 6th, 2008 at 2:18 pm →

    @Carojay It is interesting what you read in Chris’s comment. I saw the truth there was in his comment. In the macro sense, it is all true – it comes to basic supply and demand in some ways. It is also true that men are created that way – and that actually explains why the above issue exists in the first place. Understanding the core reason for something is the first step in trying to change it. And if men are going to participate in the change, then acceptance their part in this would be their first step.

    Having said that, I will not a let a single man in my life use that as an excuse for his sexist behavior — I will NEVER tolerate that. An individual is different from a mass of people – the “individual brain” will and should make decisions that are different from the “mass brain”.

    So changes to sexist issues can take place at two levels –
    1. At the individual level – by not tolerating sexist behavior by men(or women) in our own lives .Forcing the men to change. I believe a good number of us are already doing that. And from that perspective, we are all “feminists” in our own right.
    2.At a macro level – through policy changes, laws etc. This is the reason I believe HR Departments have their policies etc. Policies do not try change character of individuals – only the behavior – and thereby prevent the effects of sexism at a macro level.

    When I lived in India, I moved to Mysore (a smaller town) from a city(Bangalore) for my undergraduate degree. I faced a different sort of problem there – men called us “whores” if we dressed in as much as jeans and fitting t-shirts. We had to wear the “salwar kurtas” if we wanted to be accepted in the male-dominated society ..how incredibly insane is that ?!

    I also left a comment on this post a while ago about the sexist behavior I experience as a woman in software and what I do about it.

    Thanks to you (and all the other folk that have commented here) and Vered for this discussion. I have enjoyed it!

74. Carojay responds:
    Posted: December 6th, 2008 at 6:13 pm →

    Vered,
    Thank you for explaining your comments. As you noted, we are both feminists but some of our thought patterns are quite different.
    I was re-reading your comments to Dot and one thing struck me… You said that men’s obsession with sex is probably necessary for the survival of the species. Well, last time I checked, women are necessary for the propagation of the species, too! Doesn’t it make sense that we have basically the same urges as men but we’ve just been programmed by society not to express them?
    You said you applauded Chris for his honesty. I don’t see it as honesty, I see it as laziness. Men like this don’t WANT to change. They have this built-in, socially acceptable excuse for engaging in bad behavior. I don’t accept that they are any more incapable of regulating their urges than women are. They’ve been brought up to believe that it is “manly” to be thought of as a sex-crazed stud. I think a more appropriate way to think about it is this: if it WERE true that they were less capable than women of controlling their sexual inclinations, that doesn’t make them manly — it means they are actually weaker than women!!

75. Carojay responds:
    Posted: December 6th, 2008 at 6:22 pm →

    Maya,
    I had started my above comment to Vered and was interrupted before I posted it. It was only after I posted it that I saw your comment to me. Not that I have changed my mind about what I said, but I do want to tell you that I will re-read your post and think about it when I have a bit more time. You raise some interesting points.

    Like you, though, I do definitely want to thank Vered for giving us this forum where we can explore these issues and to all those who contribute with the idea of trying to understand each other a little better.

76. Carla responds:
    Posted: December 6th, 2008 at 7:33 pm →

    “You said you applauded Chris for his honesty. I don’t see it as honesty, I see it as laziness. Men like this don’t WANT to change”

    Exactly. I was strangely offended when I first read “Chris’s” comment on the matter. I have some very wonderful, caring, respectful men in my life and to assume that all men are dogs or pigs, is ludicrous IMO. Chris, I dont mean to jump on your or anyone else, its just that the whole “men are pigs” belief is putting all men (or women if the tables were turned) in the same unfair box.

77. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 6th, 2008 at 9:30 pm →

    @ Carojay: “Doesn’t it make sense that we have basically the same urges as men but we’ve just been programmed by society not to express them?” It’s very possible. Although there are major differences between women and men as far as the consequences of sex (women become pregnant) – which would make women far more cautious than men. But I’m the first to admit that despite being a feminist, I have no doubt that I WAS programmed by society to some extent.

    As far as controlling one’s sexual urges, I do believe men are weaker than women are. But this is another area where we need to be very careful, because the last thing we want to say is that men are exempt from controlling their urges. It may be harder for them, but obviously they can – and must – control themselves.

    @ Carla: I am married to a wonderful, caring, respectful man. He fully believes in equality for women and acts accordingly. But I’ve been watching the way he reacts to the female body, his sex drive and his needs and comparing his reactions to mine. I’ve been doing that for a long time now since we’ve been together for almost 20 years. There are major differences between women and men. It’s not that men are dogs, or pigs, or can’t control themselves. But there’s something about the way they react to women that’s very different than the way women react to men.

78. Dot responds:
    Posted: December 7th, 2008 at 9:21 pm →

    Wow, I expected to get jumped on for that rant, not praised. Knowing that Chris is a good guy who is quite honest about himself, I was a little surprised at his comment. I agree it’s probably a bit of a cop-out. He did, however, acknowledge the sexism in the situation.

    I once read an interview with Dustin Hoffman around the time he was making the movie Tootsie. He made two comments that have stuck with me ever since. One was that when he was around the age of seventeen, it was almost beyond him to control his sexuality. It just wouldn’t let him alone. I think that parents have a responsibility to control the way their daughters dress, so as not to make a difficult job more difficult. I’m not talking about “she was asking for it” or any of that. I’m just saying that good teenage boys have a tough job to do, and we can help them by preventing (if possible) teenage girls from being excessively provocative.

    The other thing Hoffman said was that, when he was in costume as a woman, he watched men walk past him, thinking he was a woman. They would look at him briefly and dismiss him with their eyes. He knew it was because they were judging him as unattractive, and he understood how that felt for women. That’s when I wanted to marry Dustin Hoffman.

    Reproducing the species explains the constant sexuality in the adolescent, but I’m not sure it applies as the man gets older. There will always be more adolescents to carry on the species. I really don’t understand why there’s such a disparity in sex drives between many men and women, but I wonder if we weren’t originally intended to be polygamous. Not that I want to give ammunition to the playahs. I know there were times in my marriage when I wished someone else would take over the job, but my ex-husband was a genuine sex addict.

79. Carojay responds:
    Posted: December 7th, 2008 at 9:49 pm →

    Vered,
    I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t believe that the sex drive is inherently higher in men than it is in women. I don’t believe in the hardwiring concept. I think there are differences between individual PEOPLE that we often mistakenly assume to be gender differences. I have several female friends who have confided in me that they have much higher sex drives than their husbands. Some have even cheated on their husbands. Does that mean that all women have higher sex drives than men and are cheaters? Of course not, but neither is the fact that your husband acts in a certain way translate to all men acting in a similar way.
    This argument really bothers me. I think the basic premise of the hardwiring concept is that sex was “created” for the pleasure of men. Women were “created” to bear children and to service men’s needs. If that were indeed the case, then we shouldn’t be concerned that women are treated as sexual objects. That must be our inherent purpose in life.
    I guess, for me, it comes down to the old “nature versus nurture” argument; and I have always firmly believed that nurture was the driving force for most of our behavior.
    And Dot, I think that teenage girls should be just as free to express themselves as boys. If boys were raised with the same moral values as we expect the girls to uphold, I bet things would be a lot different.
    That is my “rant.” I’ll probably be lambasted for it, but I stand by my beliefs.

80. Beth responds:
    Posted: December 7th, 2008 at 10:53 pm →

    No lambast here, but I really want to direct everyone’s attention to a famous piece that aired on This American Life a couple of years ago. The title of the show is “Testosterone.” You can download the podcast of this show for under $1 and it is REALLY worth it. This show explores real world examples of the behavioral effects of testosterone including interviews with a man who for medical reasons, completely lacked testosterone (and “found God”) and a transgender woman who underwent testosterone injections and experienced a complete change in behavior (VERY interesting). I highly recommend that you spend the buck and an hour to listen…afterwards,I would love to hear if any opinions are changed.

    Here is the link to the download:
    Testosterone

81. Dot responds:
    Posted: December 8th, 2008 at 9:43 am →

    @Carojay – No rant here either. In the absence of a definitive study, we can only speculate. I know that lesbian couples have been known to gradually lose interest in sex altogether, while gay male couples do not. I would think that if one is liberated enough to be “out,” one is liberal enough to accept one’s sexual drive, no? You may say it’s cultural, but I’m not sure that our culture can suppress the actuality of desire, only the expression of it. Even so, I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t affect women in every single case.

82. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 8th, 2008 at 11:11 am →

    @ Dot: “He did, however, acknowledge the sexism in the situation.” This is what I liked about his comment.

    @ Carojay: Agreeing to disagree is fine. It’s true that my own experience in my own relationship is just that and I can’t really speak for the entire human race based on my personal experience.

    Lambasting is not permitted on this blog so you’re safe to express your opinions here.

    @ Beth: Thanks for the link. This is another interesting view on the subject:
    Testosterone
    I think the main take-away point is: “These results, and the multitude of other bizarre correlations made by Dabbs and his colleagues, appear conclusive. Hormones play a big part in the individual differences and day to day changes in our behaviour. However we should be wary of blaming our way of being solely on our hormones. There’s definitely more to our life equation than our endocrine system. Dabbs agrees that “to understand human nature, it is imperative to understand both biologic and social forces.”

83. Renee responds:
    Posted: January 30th, 2009 at 5:32 pm →

    The reference to black slave owners is misleading. Often times free slaves purchased their loved ones. It was not for the purposes of continuing the exploitation but to free them from white ownership

84. International Women’s Day: We Still Have A Long Way To Go | responds:
    Posted: March 8th, 2009 at 1:02 am →

    [...] Women athletes are underrepresented in all forms of media coverage of sports. Numerous studies have found that female sports are routinely ignored, or given only a fraction of the coverage given to male sports. In some cases, women athletes are presented by the media not as athletes, but as objects of heterosexual desire. The most blatant examples are the Sports Illustrated annual swimsuit issue and the media coverage of women’s beach volleyball. [...]

85. AlaskaMa'm responds:
    Posted: April 30th, 2009 at 3:30 pm →

    I remember being in volleyball in Middle School.
    I quit for 2 reasons. 1) Females in sports are vicious in a way unlike male competitors. I’m not fond of the B*iatch behavior. and 2) Most importantly the shorts were impossible. I hate short shorts and I am no comfortable bending over in them ESPECIALLY in Middle School.

    I remember chewing out my volleyball coach when she was arguing with me that I had to get in the ready position and be more relaxed. And honestly… how is that physically possible? And there were always boys behind us and overall it’s friggin ridiculous and pointless.
    I had to have my parents buy me knee long spandex bike shorts to wear underneath so I could finish the season and I never went back. I still to this day don’t understand who the hell thought those shorts were a good idea.

86. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: April 30th, 2009 at 4:26 pm →

    @AlaskaMa’m: “I still to this day don’t understand who the hell thought those shorts were a good idea.” That makes two of us. And while some of the previous commenters argued that the problem lies with our culture, that objectifies exposed women, I’m not convinced professional athletes need to be so exposed in the first place.

87. monique responds:
    Posted: May 25th, 2009 at 3:46 pm →

    As an athlete I want respect…..I refuse to wear skimpy revealing outfits that are vulgar &
    degrading… .if men had to wear these tiny up the ass outfits they would QUIT their sport.

88. monique responds:
    Posted: May 25th, 2009 at 3:52 pm →

    The Sports Ilustrated Swimsuit issue degrades women, so do Beauty pageants …..women are
    paraded around like pork chops !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

89. firepoint525 responds:
    Posted: August 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm →

    I took P.E. in high school back in 1979 when even guy’s shorts were quite short. (I’m a guy.) I didn’t really like wearing my shorts that short (probably because I was nearly six feet tall, and barely weighed 100 lbs.!), but it really wasn’t an issue except for whenever I was sitting on the bleachers while taking breaks. I had to sit with my legs together, because the inseam on those shorts was 1-2 inches at the most! Very unusual for a guy to be forced to sit that way. (I also wore a matching color long-sleeve t-shirt under my P.E. uniform during the winter months because of the cold weather. This despite the fact that we were inside during the winter months.)

    I still remember when we did gymnastics in P.E. that we had a senior girl with us who intentionally wore butt-baring leotards almost every day! Every day, she would be out there on the gym floor with her butt exposed! And this was in 1979 when it was not common to wear one’s leotards in an intentional wedgie! And somewhat surprisingly, the P.E. teachers never ordered her to cover herself! They actually allowed her to show off her butt! She had leotards in almost every color and style imaginable, but she always wore them with her butt cheeks hanging out! Apparently, she didn’t own a leotard that would completely cover her rear end! (Other girls occasionally wore leos, too, but none of them were ever so consistently or continuously exposing themselves the way that this one girl was!) I know for a fact that she had the same P.E. uniform of t-shirt and shorts that were issued to all the other girls, but she only wore them maybe once. (And even then, I thought it was only because someone had complained about her constantly exposing herself in those leotards!) But then, the next day, she was back to wearing her leos. So I must assume that her wearing of those leos was her own choice, and that she chose to continue wearing them, even when she had the option of wearing something less revealing.

90. monique responds:
    Posted: October 16th, 2009 at 2:47 pm →

    I read the above comment from firepoint. It is a shame that some people expose
    themselves to others in public like the girl in the obscene leotards …. ( wedgie tards). If they want to dress that way they should only do it around their home…..When they dress like that they
    degrade themselves & embarrass other people. I remember high school in 1979 so I can relate.

91. Kathy responds:
    Posted: December 4th, 2009 at 7:16 pm →

    I’ve read *almost* every post. I’m a high school teacher, a strength and conditioning coach for high school athletes, an athlete myself, and a woman. This is SUCH a complicated issue, but I’d like to throw in an observation for discussion that hasn’t yet been fully explored-the choice of attire that male athletes of various sports make. There are a few sports in which the men are wearing skin tight attire that is nearly identical to the women… swimming and diving. Female swimmers and divers are wearing *mostly* 1 piece suits complete with leggings that looked nearly identical to the men’s suits. Why? Because there is a significant performance advantage to those suits, and if you don’t wear them, you stand a high chance of not placing, so even though said athletes can choose what to wear, they’re all going for what they NEED to wear to stay competative. And look what happens in that scenario: the men and women wind up dressed nearly identical to each other.
    The women volleyball athletes interviewed suggest that skimpy outfits are more comfortable and therefore enhance performance. Yet we don’t find the male athletes choosing similar outfits. If doing so gave them a significant playing advantage, they’d all have to wear revealing outfits to stay competative with each other. It’s sort of a natural selection, survival of the fittest type of scenario. So… if the female athletes are right about the performance benefits of the clothing, why aren’t the male athletes succumbing to the same performance-based pressured? I think two possible reasons could exist:
    1) There are no actual performance advantages.
    2) There are significant performance advantages, but there are other negative implications that outweight performance benefits for men but not women. Someone said in an earlier post that no one would want to watch men running around in skin tight, revealing clothing (that’s not a direct quote) Well, I challenge that assertion. Men, ask your women if they enjoy watching men’s diving or stwimming competitions because of those hot, ripped, male bodies wrapped in skin tight fabric all dripping wet and breathing hard… we LOVE it (the herterosexuals among us anyway)! We love it just as much as men like watching hot, ripped, female bodies wrapped in… nearly nothing. And we love it for the same reasons. Therefore, it would stand to reason that we’d also probably love watching men in skin tight attire or nearly nothing playing out on the courts. But heterosexual MEN don’t like it, and who owns the sports networks, the magazines, the sports drink companies, the clothing companies… pretty much all associated consumer enterprises linked to these sporting events? Men. Nevermind that hot, sweaty, panting, men wearing next to nothing gets the women in this country equally hot, sweaty and panting. Those althetes don’t feel pressured to wear revealing clothing because societal pressures of what is an isn’t desirable are primarily dictated by other men.
    Men aren’t devils, they aren’t evil, they don’t hold meetings to figure out how to keep women in their place as (sometimes just slightly) second class citizens. It’s almost always entirely subconscious and exaccerbated by simple social opportunity. Trust me, if women had the dominant voice in society, our male athlets would be telling us that their butt cheek revealing speedo’s helped them play better and that they HAD to wax their chests to keep the sand from getting snagged in their chest hair.

92. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: December 4th, 2009 at 8:00 pm →

    Kathy, thank you so much for your comment. I enjoyed reading your insights and pretty much agree with all of your points.

93. monique responds:
    Posted: January 10th, 2010 at 3:11 pm →

    The T.V. show “Make it or Break it” features scantily clad gymnast’s performing in vulgar outfits. This is
    not practical when doing the splits and spinning on the bars. Male
    gymnasts perform while wearing much more clothing and have no problem doing their routines.

94. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: January 10th, 2010 at 7:00 pm →

    Exactly my point. Thank you, Monique.

95. Of Reality responds:
    Posted: January 18th, 2010 at 10:16 pm →

    Bottom Line:
    If some guy is being creepy about it and just a general putz, you have a point.
    That would be a controlled action.
    In china, FEET used to be highly erotic.
    In Ethiopia, to this day, chubby women.
    This is seasoning that I do not care to discuss, but my point is this:
    Who are you to play “god” and tell men what should and should not turn them on?
    Spandex, especially form fitting, BURNS A HOLE in the mind of a man.
    PERIOD.
    So there is no need to chastise men about this.
    Continued staring wherein it turns into intentional ogling, I can’t defend.

    So if you have an issue with the male sex-drive, then you are the odd one for trying to
    bastardize what is only natural.
    “Athletes don’t wear it for sexual attention.”
    Too bad. Unintended effect.
    “I didn’t rip cut my body at the gym sexual attention.”
    Too bad. Unintended effect.

    It’s how our bodies work.

    As for “what kind of a message is this sending to our kids?”
    This attitude and upbringing can cause ED.

    YOU CANT GO SWIMMING AND NOT GET WET.

96. MomGrind responds:
    Posted: January 19th, 2010 at 8:28 am →

    You missed my point. My point was not that there’s something wrong with how men feel about women’s bodies, I know exactly how you feel (well as much as a woman can know, but I’ve been living with my husband for 20 years now so I have a pretty good idea), but that professional female athletes should not be dressed in a way that intentionally arouses men. The justification that it helps with performance is ridiculous since men athletes perform just fine without parading around with half their butts exposed.

97. elle responds:
    Posted: January 19th, 2010 at 12:14 pm →

    I agree with MomGrind. There’s nothing the matter with male appreciation of the female form – at all. The point is, if men can perform without wearing blatantly provocative attire, and aren’t expected to, why doesn’t the same standard apply to women. When I see an uneven standard that applies to the sexist I automatically think sexism. Ultimately I feel that is the answer here. There is an unspoken cultural expectation that women should show off their bodies for the pleasure of men. And if she doesn’t there are consequences to that.

    I have to wonder, if female athletes weren’t provocatively dressed, how much interest would there be – on the part of men – in watching? I am presuming of course that men are the ones who predominately watch sports, and it seems that for the most part, male sports are more widely watched.

98. Steve responds:
    Posted: January 20th, 2010 at 12:14 am →

    As a male of 40 years and committed to staying in shape I run and work out several times a week. I live in a colder climate and therefore run in tights whenever it’s below 50 degrees. The tights keep my legs warm and my muscles from cramping. I also like how I seem to just glide through the wind with less resistance. But more to the point here, I also think i look good in tights. The definition of my leg muscles (and yes my butt) are something I sweat hard for, so why shouldn’t I be able to show it off? I used to wear shorts over my tights but actually thought that looked pretty dumb and insecure, so yup, tights it is, with underwear of course, bikini ones. What shows at the front, shows….what can I do about it? Not like we don’t see women’s chest’s outline all the time. Since I’m on a role, I also shave my chest and and would wear a speedo if it were more socially acceptable. I qualify all of this by say that of course no one wants to see a fat man in tights or speedo, but the same goes for you ladies. But if you’re in shape, why hide it under baggy clothes? Maybe it’s just me…..

99. elle responds:
    Posted: January 20th, 2010 at 3:45 pm →

    Wow, Steve.

    Reading your post I entirely forgot what the point of this blog was…

100. MomGrind responds:
     Posted: January 20th, 2010 at 4:16 pm →

     I thought the exact same thing.

101. Steve responds:
     Posted: January 20th, 2010 at 11:22 pm →

     I’ll take that as a compliment elle!
     I should have added I’m heterosexual. I say that because if a guy wears something tight or revealing then people think “he must be gay.” Just another stereotype I guess. But now we’re really getting off topic. I just say if you’ve got if, feel comfortable flaunting it. Female volleyball players could obviously wear something less revealing, but it’s good for the sport and therefore their careers. Anyone watched women’s golf lately?? Holy cow, very short tight skirts and tight tops. My goodness, what happened to the days when you couldn’t get on a course unless your shirt had a collar?!?!
     Just my 5 cents!

102. Natasha responds:
     Posted: January 26th, 2010 at 3:26 pm →

     Steve, I think it would really help us all out if you could post a few pictures of you in your running outfit, maybe a few with you in a speedo…for research purposes only!
     Thank you in advance,
     N

103. monique responds:
     Posted: February 1st, 2010 at 9:14 pm →

     The male and female athletes should wear the exact same outfits. The girls and women will get more respect
     and will be able to perform better if they are not spending their time tugging at their clothing so
     they don’t flash the fans. Males have performed for many years with much more clothing than the
     females and have never had a problem with too much material slowing them down.

104. monique Jezierski responds:
     Posted: February 28th, 2010 at 9:47 pm →

     ENOUGH WITH THE DEGRADING SKIMPY OUTFITS ON FEMALES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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